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I've walked away from software development

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Re: I've walked away from software development

#161

Post by ChuckNorris89 »

cylon13 wrote: post #130
giantg2 wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not really handcuffs. You make a ton of money and move to a lower cost area to work on whatever you want. Financial independence removes way more restrictions than actually requiring a paycheck to live. Even if you stay at the company, just knowing that you have the money to say screw it and do what you want is empowering - Oh, you're going to fire me if I don't do xyz, go ahead because I don't need the job.

I'm pretty sure ageism in tech boils down to this point. People who have been in the industry longer have better nest eggs and can simply leave at any point, so they won't crunch for you.

Not where I live(Europe). Older people I know, without inheritance, who don't come from money (this makes a big difference), tend to have families and took on expensive mortgages, sometimes even a house in the suburbs, so they just put up with huge amounts of toxicity and overtime for the sake of providing a high standard of living for their families, while younger single people have nothing tying them down, often living frugally in shared accommodations, so if you shit on them, they can just pack up and leave whenever, whereever.

On the other side of the spectrum, people I know with any real estate inheritance, tend to not take part in the rat race and just take any chill (governmet)job they can find, as having their housing already covered, means they only need some money for food and bills so they can focus on enjoying life.

Re: I've walked away from software development

#162

Post by jodrellblank »

mmcgaha wrote: post #34
jpmattia wrote: post #18

In the middle of the rant on burnout, he says: > I'm sick of everyone being on Adderall. Is that really a thing? ie What proportion of software folks are using it?

The addreall comment blew me away too. When did smart people start taking PEDs? My guess is that software development is a field where it is more common for folks with the ADHD hyperfocus to excel, but if there is a problem brewing it should be addressed.

Since at least Paul Erdos.

More recently, one of LessWrong’s favourite topics is nootropics for intelligence enhancement.

Less recently, Terence McKenna’s critique of caffeine and the industrial revolution and the concept of a “tea break” to give tired workers stimulating caffeine to boost productivity, and how easily that became the norm instead of a siesta or a marijuana break or knocking off early for the day.

Re: I've walked away from software development

#163

Post by jokethrowaway »

b0rsuk wrote: post #87
TravHatesMe wrote: post #38

This really resonates with me. I'm becoming jaded as well. My most hated thing about the industry: the amount of people who do not give a shit. These people try to do the least amount of work possible. They actively try to stretch a day's worth of work into a month. They do not want to learn anything, even on the company's dime. They have zero passion and pride. Often they are vicious; they will act so kind and diplo…

It sounds like you're dealing with narcissists, one of the most toxic kinds of people possible. You run into them eventually and they're good at influencing people and masking themselves. Pointing them out to others does no good unless you have a lot of reputation. But if you educate yourself, you can see through most of their schemes, detach emotionally, and keep your sanity. Is Your Boss Narcissistic? [Signs of Nar…

Narcissism is the mental illness of this century! It's very common in varying degrees.

That said, I agree with you that large companies are worse because there's a higher chance of a manipulative person being hired and acquiring company.

I also think that the more money to be made, the higher the likelihood such people will show up.

That's also why governments don't work, they're just the largest companies we have in society + monopoly on legal violence.

Re: I've walked away from software development

#164

Post by jokethrowaway »

TravHatesMe wrote: post #149
treis wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>My most hated thing about the industry: the amount of people who do not give a shit. This is why they're not burned out. And IMHO, this sounds a lot like sour grapes. To be rewarded for good work your management needs to know you're doing good work. For them to know you're doing good work you need to tell them. This is just a basic fact of life. And it's not super hard. You just need to maintain a relationship with…

> This is why they're not burned out. So your solution is to just not give a shit like everyone else? The reason that I've become so good at my craft is by giving a shit. The reason that my projects always succeed is because I give a shit. Not giving a shit puts a ceiling on your career as a developer. Not giving a shit will prevent you from learning. The irony in my situation is that I am investing in myself by doin…

You're not reaping a lot of the benefits of your hard work.

I think employee life will always be a source of anger for passionate people like you.

Have you considered finding business partners and starting your own company?

Re: I've walked away from software development

#165

Post by pseudalopex »

the-dude wrote: post #83
hasmolo wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

it’s a lot higher than you might expect but i don’t think it’s endemic to software at this point. there’s a bit of a cultural shift around mental disorders and the old stigma attached. i’ve seen a lot of people i know, from preschool teachers to principal scientists, get an ADD or ADHD diagnosis in their later years. the acknowledgment of a disability is much easier now. all of that said, the use of adderal, vyvanse,…

> the acknowledgment of a disability is much easier now. Are you saying a significant part of human kind has been disabled for the past couple of thousand years and we are only now acknowledging this? I am old enough to remember ADD/ADHD did not exist. We were outside a lot.

"The first example of a disorder that appears to be similar to ADHD was given by Sir Alexander Crichton in 1798."[1]

Mild ADHD was less of an impediment before industrialization. It's less of an impediment if you have a secretary at the office and a wife at home. Self medicating can help.

What does a severe case look like if you don't know what you're looking at? Maybe shiftless, maybe dim, maybe accident prone, maybe hot headed, maybe a drunk.

Do you think people didn't get PTSD before the name was invented?

[1] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3000907/

Re: I've walked away from software development

#166

Post by soco »

vsareto wrote: post #73
kminehart wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

what does that even mean?

People will start drama if you use the wrong words. Either the drama itself or trying to avoid it is an additional source of stress.

Lucky for me I'm in a country developed enough by all standards yet largely not affected by this circus.

Re: I've walked away from software development

#167

Post by bradlys »

giantg2 wrote: post #144
burnthrow wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> about 9 years in I'm personally offended.

Why? I've had my job outsourced, been subjected to office politics, been passed/screwed over for promotions, seen the company violate its own rules to my detriment, etc ect.

> I've had my job outsourced, been subjected to office politics, been passed/screwed over for promotions, seen the company violate its own rules to my detriment, etc ect.

I mean, I've seen all those too and that was only like 2-3 years in. So?

It's normal workplace behavior.

I think most of us are just upset with capitalism, tbh.

Re: I've walked away from software development

#168

Post by dvtrn »

notacoward wrote: post #72
ryandvm wrote: post #48

I think all of us 40+ folks are in the same place. When we first started we didn't mind the bullshit so much because we were too dumb to realize how much there was. Then we got older and, yeah, it's ridiculous, but we were pretty decent at surfing the bullshit waves so we still didn't mind so much. Now you're in your 40s and the real obligations of life have started piling up. You've gone from 7 hours of free time a…

Being on the steep part of the learning curve makes up for a lot of bullshit.

For some, probably, yeah. And good for them. Let the rest of us have this moment, though.

Re: I've walked away from software development

#169

Post by dvtrn »

ryandvm wrote: post #48

I think all of us 40+ folks are in the same place. When we first started we didn't mind the bullshit so much because we were too dumb to realize how much there was. Then we got older and, yeah, it's ridiculous, but we were pretty decent at surfing the bullshit waves so we still didn't mind so much. Now you're in your 40s and the real obligations of life have started piling up. You've gone from 7 hours of free time a…

Ryan I think you and Adam would get along quite well, there’s similar themes that I bet you’d nod your head as vigorously as I did in this piece:

https://dev.to/bytebodger/why-older-people-struggle-in-progr...

Re: I've walked away from software development

#170

Post by aerostable_slug »

MattGaiser wrote: post #65
ryandvm wrote: post #48

I think all of us 40+ folks are in the same place. When we first started we didn't mind the bullshit so much because we were too dumb to realize how much there was. Then we got older and, yeah, it's ridiculous, but we were pretty decent at surfing the bullshit waves so we still didn't mind so much. Now you're in your 40s and the real obligations of life have started piling up. You've gone from 7 hours of free time a…

> Oh, by the way, it's December, so we need you to watch that 45 minute security training video again so you don't accept USB flash drives from strangers in the parking lot. The ability to mute a tab and have it run in the background is at times a beautiful thing.

Reminds me of "Snow Crash", specifically when Y.T.'s mom games reading a memo at her .gov job:

"Y.T.'s mom decides to spend between fourteen and fifteen minutes reading the memo. It's better for younger workers to spend too long, to show that they're careful, not cocky. It's better for older workers to go a little fast, to show good management potential. She's pushing forty. She scans through the memo, hitting the Page Down button at reasonably regular intervals, occasionally paging back up to pretend to reread some earlier section. The computer is going to notice all this. It approves of rereading. It's a small thing, but over a decade or so this stuff really shows up on your work-habits summary."

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