I prepared for a decade to graduate in CS in three months • Hacker News Board

Re: I prepared for a decade to graduate in CS in three months

#191

Post by the_only_law » Fri, Dec 18, 2020, 5:16 PM UTC

chrisseaton wrote: post #38

TuringNYC wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Any luck finding an online PhD? I've been looking for those. As much as I'd love to do a formal PhD program, I cannot with family, but the qualification (from whichever accredited university) would open up a lot of opportunities.

> but the qualification (from whichever accredited university) would open up a lot of opportunities I'd caution about this - if you think you can apply to jobs requiring a PhD I would think that when you apply the first thing they're going to do is to ask you who your advisor was and what you did. Unlike a bachelors just having a PhD isn't worth much - they will want to know what you actually achieved. If you have a…

Just out of curiosity, who is offering remote PhD’s? The only online PhD’s I’ve ever seen have been in nursing related fields.

Re: I prepared for a decade to graduate in CS in three months

#192

Post by Buttons840 » Fri, Dec 18, 2020, 5:16 PM UTC

jventura wrote: post #153

While I praise the author's effort, as a professor myself (I teach CS in a local polytechnic school - something like the US community colleges) I really doubt the quality of either the WGU and of the knowledge retention. As an example, this semester I'm teaching Operating Systems concepts (definitions, processes, threads, semaphores, mutexes, signals, memory layouts, IO, etc.), and even if I take the theoretical conc…

I took a Data Structures and Algorithms course at a brick and mortar university. It was being taught by a substitute teacher from the art department who knew some programming. The class was 5 assignments, the first of which I completed with about 60 characters of Python code; I remember feeling smug because others struggled with the same assignment. The other assignments weren't much harder. It's not all bad though, I had a great time "hanging out" (our classes were little more) with the teacher and other students.

My point is: Brick and mortar universities can also be ridiculously easy. Your students are either lucky or unlucky, depending on how they look at it. I'm currently approaching 40 hours spent on Software 1 at WGU, and I've worked as a professional programmer for over 10 years. In my experience WGU has been harder that what I had at my little "community college" (which was actually an accredited university).

Re: I prepared for a decade to graduate in CS in three months

#193

Post by theplague42 » Fri, Dec 18, 2020, 5:16 PM UTC

trophycase wrote: post #151

rfrey wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That means you earned more than $80,000 post-tax income surplus to your needs. That surplus is a third more than the US average total household pre-tax income.

But the average household probably also isn't in 240k of debt unless they made very very poor financial choices.

Or student debt; a doctor going 200k into debt for med school probably isn't exactly in dire financial straits.

Re: I prepared for a decade to graduate in CS in three months

#194

Post by jventura » Fri, Dec 18, 2020, 5:17 PM UTC

trogdor3000 wrote: post #179

jventura wrote: post #153

While I praise the author's effort, as a professor myself (I teach CS in a local polytechnic school - something like the US community colleges) I really doubt the quality of either the WGU and of the knowledge retention. As an example, this semester I'm teaching Operating Systems concepts (definitions, processes, threads, semaphores, mutexes, signals, memory layouts, IO, etc.), and even if I take the theoretical conc…

The sad thing is that no one cares abou the quality of the degree outside of academia. All they care about is seeing the BS on your resume.

When I say that the quality of the degree is not good, it is somewhat implied that the quality of the work of the person who did the degree is also questionable.. :/

Re: I prepared for a decade to graduate in CS in three months

#195

Post by ChrisRR » Fri, Dec 18, 2020, 5:17 PM UTC

bserge wrote: post #120

pokler wrote: post #24

I think the subheading may be a better title -- 'This is the story of how I prepared for a decade to graduate in 3 months.' This seems feasible only for a specific set of people: those with previous experience & looking specifically for the credential and not so much the learning experience that comes with a traditional 4 year degree. Not to take away from the author's achievement, I just think it would be misleading…

Some people on Reddit did say they completed 2-3 month bootcamps/courses with no prior experience and got junior dev jobs (in the UK), so I don't even know. Then again it's online and on Reddit, so they may be just lying. I believe it is possible to learn enough to be decent in 3 months full time, and then learn everything else as you go. However, I don't see anyone hiring with that kind of experience. But then why p…

I always worry about the kind of companies that hire bootcamp devs like that.

Sure, I agree that quite a lot of university is not necessary for everyone, but not 2.5 years of unnecessary

If someone has just started from scratch 3 months ago and only knows how to program a bit in javascript, interface with a server and populate a database. I don't want them anywhere near a project.

I want them to at least know the basic data types and algorithms, security and integrity and design patterns. I don't want to have to deal with software crashes because they don't understand what O(N^2) is.

Re: I prepared for a decade to graduate in CS in three months

#196

Post by caeril » Fri, Dec 18, 2020, 5:17 PM UTC

I see a lot missing, here. No assembly, compilers, linear algebra, or digital design courses that you find in every other CS program.

How did this courseload get accredited? (and I say this as someone who never graduated - just showing some respect for the courseload required by some of my peers, here)

Re: I prepared for a decade to graduate in CS in three months

#197

Post by xenihn » Fri, Dec 18, 2020, 5:18 PM UTC

I've been wanting to do an online MSCS program for years, but it probably won't happen anytime soon. I looked into WGU, but I didn't like the lack of accreditation.

I found one school/program that seemed fair in terms of cost and time, but I couldn't fully test out of all of my pre-requisites, and I would still have to spend a considerable amount of time (and money) doing community college courses.

I just can't justify the time and effort involved when it would do nothing for my career at this point. I'm already at a top employer, top 5% income, a ridiculous upward trajectory that beats out all of my friends with a CS degree, and I'm basically set for the rest of my working life if I just keep doing what I've been doing for the past five years.

Coworkers have always assumed I had a CS degree, and have been surprised when they find out that I don't. I've grinded leetcode twice in the past, and when I'm in interviewing shape, I perform as well as someone with a CS background, and that's the only thing that really matters.

The main benefits I see at this point are that it would help for immigration, but I'm confident that the United States will remain the best market for software engineers for years to come. I'd rather invest the time in learning Mandarin, which I think will become increasingly important for software engineering. I at least have a non-STEM undergrad degree, so immigration wouldn't be impossible. The employers on my resume mean more than any CS degree would in the US market, but I don't know how true that is in other job markets.

For people who don't have experience, and especially for those doing the typical college path from ages 18-21, a CS bachelor's is great. You get priority for internships (a huge advantage over people from non-CS backgrounds, and the most significant IMO), a network of peers, and you have the opportunity to land in FAANG straight out of college, which means you'll be able to retire early if you want to. If you don't, you still get the other two.

I started my career late, but if I had the opportunity to go back in time to when I had just graduated from a non-STEM program and trade two years of working for a CS degree, I wouldn't do it. I don't think I would be as successful as I am now if I had done that.

Things would be different if software engineering had gatekeeping similar to what's seen in other high-paying fields like finance, law, and medicine. The only real form of gatekeeping is the aforementioned prioritization (and sometimes even exclusivity) for internships.

Re: I prepared for a decade to graduate in CS in three months

#198

Post by leetcrew » Fri, Dec 18, 2020, 5:18 PM UTC

trophycase wrote: post #151

rfrey wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That means you earned more than $80,000 post-tax income surplus to your needs. That surplus is a third more than the US average total household pre-tax income.

But the average household probably also isn't in 240k of debt unless they made very very poor financial choices.

this is correct, the median household has a (positive!) net worth of ~$120k. you have to go down to the tenth percentile and below to find households that actually have negative net worths.

https://dqydj.com/average-median-top-net-worth-percentiles/#...

Re: I prepared for a decade to graduate in CS in three months

#199

Post by confidantlake » Fri, Dec 18, 2020, 5:18 PM UTC

autotune wrote: post #84

WGU would be great if they would just accept my friggin high school transcripts. I've had them mailed out twice, once via certified letter, and both times their admissions department failed to receive said transcripts. It's really infuriating too because I'd love to take their CS program but they just... won't... accept... my... transcripts.

Also gave up in attending because of the admissions process.

Re: I prepared for a decade to graduate in CS in three months

#200

Post by the_only_law » Fri, Dec 18, 2020, 5:19 PM UTC

dfee wrote: post #98

I had some rich experiences going through computer engineering at Notre Dame. I very much didn’t come from wealth, and received some amazing scholarship. I left with a relatively small student loan. (Now, USC on the other hand - offered me no financial aid! Which I rightfully understood as they didn’t really want me to attend.) One of them was doing an internship after sophomore year with the Air Force Research Labs…

> I don’t know how you replicate these experiences outside a formal program;

They aren’t designed for that. The specific programmed mentioned I believe is designed solely to bypass credential based gates where you might meet them.

Bootcamps are generally designed for quick turn around times for people who want a high paying career change, and come with a different set of experiences.