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Possible Radio Emission from Exoplanet Detected

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Re: Possible Radio Emission from Exoplanet Detected

#21

Post by ojnabieoot »

skocznymroczny wrote: post #14

It seems that we expect an alien civilization, if it exists, to follow a similar discovery path as we did. As such we listen for radio signals as a way of communication, because that's what we are doing. How likely is it for another civilization to follow the same path? Some of our breakthrough scientific advances happened by accident. What are the odds that we missed some big new technologies because we haven't happ…

I think this is getting the causality backwards:

> As such we listen for radio signals as a way of communication, because that's what we are doing.

It’s not because we expect aliens to be using radio communication or to follow the same path we did. It’s more because electromagnetic radiation is the only thing we can reasonably detect. If the aliens are communicating with gravity waves somehow, our sensors are probably not good enough to determine it. And if it’s some new physics we haven’t discovered, how would we even know what to look for? EM waves are really the only good option we have right now.

That said, it is reasonable to assume that a technologically advanced civilization is using some fashion of electromagnetic devices, which therefore generate radio waves and could be detected.

But I don’t think anyone is claiming that every technologically advanced civilization will have a detectable radio signal. It’s just the best tool we have.

Re: Possible Radio Emission from Exoplanet Detected

#23

Post by rob74 »

checkyoursudo wrote: post #12
flobosg wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This comment left me wondering: What's the astronomy equivalent of “in mice”?

Gotta be something like "(but it's probably not aliens)", right?

Could you use "non-biogenic" (https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/biogenic) for a thing like radio emissions?

Re: Possible Radio Emission from Exoplanet Detected

#24

Post by chongli »

ojnabieoot wrote: post #16
WJW wrote: post #3

From a Jupiter-like gas giant type exoplanet, which generate radio emissions through entirely natural processes just like the gas giants in our own solar system. The title is a tad more spectacular than the actual discovery.

The title is in an odd spot where, on the face, it is completely anodyne, and not at all misleading or “clickbait.” Yet even sensible readers (like me!) see “radio” and “exoplanet” in the same sentence and think “ALIENS!” Very awkward spot for the science PR people writing this. It’s almost like it needs extra words to prevent people from adding “Possible (But Definitely Non-Alien) Radio Emission From Exoplanet (Whic…

It’s a radio emission, not a radio transmission. That’s a key distinction that may be lost on a lay reader (or anyone not paying enough attention).

Astronomers, amateur astronomers, and astronomy enthusiasts all tend to be aware of the fact that radio is just another part of the spectrum we can use to look at the universe. It’s a strange quirk of our culture that the word radio carries connotations of technology and thus connotes intelligence.

Re: Possible Radio Emission from Exoplanet Detected

#26

Post by V-2 »

skocznymroczny wrote: post #14

It seems that we expect an alien civilization, if it exists, to follow a similar discovery path as we did. As such we listen for radio signals as a way of communication, because that's what we are doing. How likely is it for another civilization to follow the same path? Some of our breakthrough scientific advances happened by accident. What are the odds that we missed some big new technologies because we haven't happ…

I can't see a good reason to assume an alien civilization would be industrial to begin with, whatever discovery path might lead one there.

And I don't even mean they could be underwater creatures etc., which is also a possibility.

Imagine Earth as we know it, inhabited by humans as we know them, but no fossil fuels (due to a different geological history), very few metal ores (making every metal as scarce as, say, platinum) - and you're stuck in an eternal stone age, possibly with more advanced social organization, but never getting beyond our ancient or medieval standards.

Re: Possible Radio Emission from Exoplanet Detected

#27

Post by xenophonf »

wcoenen wrote: post #15
coolspot wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I guess significance here is that if we can isolate radio signals from naturally-emitting planet, we potentially can isolate radio signals from artificially-emitting planet.

I was going to reply that it might be difficult to match the power of something like Jupiter's radio signals. However, it turns out that Jupiter's decametric radio emissions are only about the equivalent of a megawatt antenna[1]. The US air force already has a radar with a peak power of 32 megawatts[2]. So with sufficient motivation, in principle we or an alien civilization could certainly send regular signals like t…

Not only could we send those kinds of signals, we already have done it using the Arecibo Telescope (RIP), which h̶a̶s̶ had EIRPs ranging from 200 megawatts to 22,000,000 megawatts depending on the transmission frequency. In 1974, we beamed a short message to the Messier 13 globular cluster with a transmission power of just under half a megawatt.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arecibo_message

Re: Possible Radio Emission from Exoplanet Detected

#28

Post by DaiPlusPlus »

rob74 wrote: post #23
checkyoursudo wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Gotta be something like "(but it's probably not aliens)", right?

Could you use "non-biogenic" ( https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/biogenic ) for a thing like radio emissions?

That still suggests a _machine race_ could have sent it.

Re: Possible Radio Emission from Exoplanet Detected

#29

Post by DaiPlusPlus »

standardUser wrote: post #18
ojnabieoot wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The title is in an odd spot where, on the face, it is completely anodyne, and not at all misleading or “clickbait.” Yet even sensible readers (like me!) see “radio” and “exoplanet” in the same sentence and think “ALIENS!” Very awkward spot for the science PR people writing this. It’s almost like it needs extra words to prevent people from adding “Possible (But Definitely Non-Alien) Radio Emission From Exoplanet (Whic…

"Natural Radio Emission" seems to clarify things just fine.

If that's a Natural Radio Emission, then what's a Nocturnal Transmission then?

Re: Possible Radio Emission from Exoplanet Detected

#30

Post by canjobear »

skocznymroczny wrote: post #14

It seems that we expect an alien civilization, if it exists, to follow a similar discovery path as we did. As such we listen for radio signals as a way of communication, because that's what we are doing. How likely is it for another civilization to follow the same path? Some of our breakthrough scientific advances happened by accident. What are the odds that we missed some big new technologies because we haven't happ…

> How likely is it for another civilization to follow the same path?

Maybe not likely. But for other paths, we don't know what to look for. Presumably, if there are technologically advanced alien species out there, some fraction of them followed a path involving radio signals. And that's what we know to look for.

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