Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Playing chess is a life lesson in concentration

aeon.co

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

51–60 of 128 posts

Re: Playing chess is a life lesson in concentration

#51

Post by Rerarom »

pea wrote: post #31
ddxxdd wrote: post #29

This reminds me of a question posed by an online user of a message board I frequent: Will the likes of Deep Blue and Alpha Zero kill competitive chess? My initial thoughts were, "No, of course not! Cars and trains didn't kill track-and-field competitions!". But now that I think about it, I really do feel a slight aversion towards getting back into chess. Although practiced concentration is a side-benefit of playing c…

I see where you're coming from, but I think the practical chances of a given chess player who hasn't played in a decade becoming GM-level are realistically similar to beating Alpha Zero. Ben Finegold tweeted about this once: https://twitter.com/ben_finegold/status/1316936206844821505?...

Yeah but this would to me be an argument against chess in general, whether pre- or post-AI.

Math is better, I feel like I can really contribute stuff that no one else would otherwise.

Re: Playing chess is a life lesson in concentration

#52

Post by dmurray »

ddxxdd wrote: post #29

This reminds me of a question posed by an online user of a message board I frequent: Will the likes of Deep Blue and Alpha Zero kill competitive chess? My initial thoughts were, "No, of course not! Cars and trains didn't kill track-and-field competitions!". But now that I think about it, I really do feel a slight aversion towards getting back into chess. Although practiced concentration is a side-benefit of playing c…

> but that desire to play chess has been extinguished for me, and I'm sure for many others, once AlphaZero and DeepBlue hit the scene.

It was extinguished in 1996, when DeepBlue played? Or 2018, when AlphaZero was announced? In the intervening time, an entire generation of chess players - and many generations of chess computers - has come and gone.

I understand the feeling that there's nothing new to discover - but if you conflate the state of competitive chess in 1996 with that in 2018, you probably don't know how much you don't know. And if you could have hypothetically beaten Kasparov, you'd certainly have had a chance against Deep Blue.

Re: Playing chess is a life lesson in concentration

#53

Post by ajdegol »

segmondy wrote: post #3
pmoriarty wrote: post #2

Once one has learned how to concentrate, the next thing to learn is to be able to concentrate on the right thing. Chess taught me to concentrate, but I've always had trouble concentrating on what I should be concentrating on, and instead wasted too much time concentrating on chess and other diversions. The real trick is being able to focus on something even when it gets frustrating, painful, or boring, and being able…

So how you do concentrate on things that are not chess and games which you find boring?

There is a technique I see none of the other comments have hit upon.

First, know concentration is a skill, so develop that. I can tell you how to muscle up but if you can't pull up then knowing how won't help.

You are able to convince yourself you're interested in something by asking questions about it. Create the space in your brain that wants the knowledge to be in there. Find a question you genuinely want to know the answer to. There's usually at least something. This is how I was able to maintain focus on reading atomic physics, funnily enough, it's now the most prominent thing I remember from my degree.

Re: Playing chess is a life lesson in concentration

#54

Post by nemo44x »

pea wrote: post #31
ddxxdd wrote: post #29

This reminds me of a question posed by an online user of a message board I frequent: Will the likes of Deep Blue and Alpha Zero kill competitive chess? My initial thoughts were, "No, of course not! Cars and trains didn't kill track-and-field competitions!". But now that I think about it, I really do feel a slight aversion towards getting back into chess. Although practiced concentration is a side-benefit of playing c…

I see where you're coming from, but I think the practical chances of a given chess player who hasn't played in a decade becoming GM-level are realistically similar to beating Alpha Zero. Ben Finegold tweeted about this once: https://twitter.com/ben_finegold/status/1316936206844821505?...

Chess has to be the only game that regular people actually think they could become elite at. If you’re just picking it up in your late teens, there is basically no chance of becoming GM or even IM. Nearly every top-rated kid will never become GM for that matter.

It seems like people really downplay difficulty of getting to that level. Even comments from the parent about hypothetically being able to beat Kasparov imply a certain misunderstanding of the vast gap between the 1% best players and the .01% best players.

I suppose it’s fair to have fantasies about the possibility of beating the best of the best but the reality is for almost every person, a player like Kasparov in his prime is no different than a computer.

Re: Playing chess is a life lesson in concentration

#55

Post by pso »

dmurray wrote: post #12

Here's a link to the game Rowson mentions against Yermolinsky. The critical position ("Yermolinsky offered a pawn as bait...") arises on move 18. It's not spectacular - I would say mundane, but you can't say that when someone beats a top GM in just 24 moves. What Yermolinsky overlooked is a famously missable type of move - a backwards move to a square that was occupied at the start of the variation - but still trivia…

I think the move Rowson's referring to is move 9. Since in the essay he says "Yermolinsky offered a pawn as bait, and I very nearly didn’t take it because doing so would allow him to play a series of forcing moves"

So the only pawn that was offered and that Rowson took was on move 10 in reply.

The only reason I checked was to see how far a grandmaster was looking ahead, in this case 14 moves, which i find impressive. "...I discovered a surprising detail right at the end of the line, in which my knight could retreat back to its original square, "

Like you, I wouldn't be impressed if he only saw from move 18 to move 24.

Re: Playing chess is a life lesson in concentration

#56

Post by akuro »

username90 wrote: post #43

Why concentrate on playing chess when you can concentrate on solving math problems? They are deeper, more fun and also related to the real world. I never liked chess but thinking about random math problems kept me up at night. If you think math problems aren't interesting then you just aren't trying to solve hard enough math problems, there is no end to them.

Stole my comment! :)

You're right, though. I started playing chess to improve my concentration as a teenager, mostly for the purpose of improving my ability to focus on math. Then I realised that I got better at concentrating at math by... doing math problems instead of wasting my time playing chess.

According to Wikipedia: G. H. Hardy described proof by contradiction as "one of a mathematician's finest weapons", saying "It is a far finer gambit than any chess gambit: a chess player may offer the sacrifice of a pawn or even a piece, but a mathematician offers the game."

You don't even need to proof theorems in algebraic geometry to start seeing the beauty and power of mathematical thinking. Get a mental arithmetic app on your phone and spend a few months routinely practising some sums. What first appears as a dry activity will soon become a highly personal exercise in creative reasoning, of finding the best way to represent and manipulate with numbers. For example, I solve arithmetic problems visually but my friend works best by reasoning aurally (I don't get it either, but seeing as he can multipy two 4 digit numbers in seconds it works for him). I'll say that learning to multiplying large numbers in my head has done more for me in terms of mental training than chess has!

Re: Playing chess is a life lesson in concentration

#57

Post by trykondev »

pso wrote: post #55
dmurray wrote: post #12

Here's a link to the game Rowson mentions against Yermolinsky. The critical position ("Yermolinsky offered a pawn as bait...") arises on move 18. It's not spectacular - I would say mundane, but you can't say that when someone beats a top GM in just 24 moves. What Yermolinsky overlooked is a famously missable type of move - a backwards move to a square that was occupied at the start of the variation - but still trivia…

I think the move Rowson's referring to is move 9. Since in the essay he says "Yermolinsky offered a pawn as bait, and I very nearly didn’t take it because doing so would allow him to play a series of forcing moves" So the only pawn that was offered and that Rowson took was on move 10 in reply. The only reason I checked was to see how far a grandmaster was looking ahead, in this case 14 moves, which i find impressive.…

The parent comment is correct -- "offering a pawn" means allowing the other player to capture a pawn without yourself having an immediate way to regain it, usually banking on some kind of other piece activity as compensation for the material.

On move 9 it is a simple exchange of pawns and since the material remains equal after the resulting sequence of exchanges we would not refer to that as offering a pawn.

Re: Playing chess is a life lesson in concentration

#58

Post by nemo44x »

dmos62 wrote: post #23
wooolfgang wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think people try too much to concentrate on things that they do not actually like. As Bukowski wrote, “Don’t Try.”

I'd interpret Bukowski's famous "don't try" not as "don't do what you don't want to", but rather as "don't foster conflicts". To try is to do something when you half-believe that you can do it and half-believe that you can't. It's half-commitment. Bukowski is instructing, I believe (wink wink), to drop all that believing and just do things, without mental baggage.

I think it’s about not forcing things. Don’t set a time for when a creative output should be done. Wait for it and let it come to you. “Trying” won’t lead to genius creations; just letting it come to you from spontaneous inspiration and patience.

Re: Playing chess is a life lesson in concentration

#59

Post by swiley »

pmoriarty wrote: post #2

Once one has learned how to concentrate, the next thing to learn is to be able to concentrate on the right thing. Chess taught me to concentrate, but I've always had trouble concentrating on what I should be concentrating on, and instead wasted too much time concentrating on chess and other diversions. The real trick is being able to focus on something even when it gets frustrating, painful, or boring, and being able…

>The real trick is being able to focus on something even when it gets frustrating, painful, or boring, and being able to do this for extended periods of time. Then the world is your oyster.

Any advice on learning this? Is it just the usual "do things that are difficult and meaningful?" Or is there a shortcut?

Re: Playing chess is a life lesson in concentration

#60

Post by pso »

trykondev wrote: post #57
pso wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the move Rowson's referring to is move 9. Since in the essay he says "Yermolinsky offered a pawn as bait, and I very nearly didn’t take it because doing so would allow him to play a series of forcing moves" So the only pawn that was offered and that Rowson took was on move 10 in reply. The only reason I checked was to see how far a grandmaster was looking ahead, in this case 14 moves, which i find impressive.…

The parent comment is correct -- "offering a pawn" means allowing the other player to capture a pawn without yourself having an immediate way to regain it, usually banking on some kind of other piece activity as compensation for the material. On move 9 it is a simple exchange of pawns and since the material remains equal after the resulting sequence of exchanges we would not refer to that as offering a pawn.

Yep, I looked at it again. My desire to be impressed with grandmaster foresight got the better of me.
Post reply on HN