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Mental Illness and Startups

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Re: Mental Illness and Startups

#21

Post by Rondrak »

_tef wrote: post #6

"you don't have to be mad to work here but ...." i've found smaller companies are much more tolerant & flexible with nutters (like me). there seems to be more focus on results than politics. in larger places I've felt more pressure not to rock the boat, and produce the illusion of work, rather than actually delivering things on time. it doesn't seem to matter if you actually do anything as long as you look like you'r…

I've worked for Microsoft for over a year now, and they've been exceptionally supportive of my peculiarities. I've suffered massively from depression and sleep disorders, and everyone's pretty willing to reschedule meetings, allow for an altered work schedule, or just let me work from home when it gets bad.

As long as I deliver what I'm supposed to, when I'm supposed to, they're very reasonable.

Re: Mental Illness and Startups

#22

Post by thaumaturgy »

Alex3917 wrote: post #19
thaumaturgy wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unfortunately, professional help isn't free, and there are quite a few people who can't afford it right now. ...alcohol's a cheap medication, anyway.

Alcohol makes mental illnesses vastly worse. (As, apparently, do most psychiatric drugs in the long run.)

I know that. I was referring to the popularity of alcohol among those with mental illnesses, not its efficacy.

Re: Mental Illness and Startups

#23

Post by econner »

MartinCron wrote: post #7

While I don't disagree with this statement: There are people who think that depression means 'feeling low', and that if you try hard enough, you can 'snap out of it'. These people are idiots. It's not a matter of being strong enough or dedicated enough. For me, like most people with depressive illnesses, there will be times when I just plain can't. In my worst states I can barely remember what a for loop does, let al…

I completely identify with this point. A member of my family suffers from depression and she's generated a list of things that she has to do when she feels particularly depressed. They are all pretty basic things for most people -- things like showering, making a cup of coffee, doing her hair, etc -- but things that can feel impossible. She gives herself the ultimatum that she has to do these things and it usually helps.

Re: Mental Illness and Startups

#24

Post by Dove »

MartinCron wrote: post #9
iskander wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can't speak generally, but when I'm depressed none of the stuff you listed has any appeal. Even much simpler easier things, like sex or sunlight are covered in a terrible veil. The world looks drab and unfriendly. My sensory perception gets altered, everything looks and feels different. It's hard to think, it's hard to talk with people--- the social scripts are all broken and the baseline feeling of my reality is w…

Indeed, that's one of the ways that you diagnose depression. If the things that once made you feel really awesome (sex, motorcycling, coding, gaming, cooking, whatever) no longer hold any appeal for you, that means you're very likely not merely "feeling down" but actually clinically depressed.

The symptom is anhedonia -- the inability to experience pleasure. You can eat a delicious meal, play outside in the sunshine with little kids, have great sex, and through it all feel nothing.

It's like when a finger is numb -- you touch things with it thinking, "How odd, I ought to be feeling something." But you don't.

It's not just feeling down. It's your brain's ability to feel pleasure being physically broken.

Re: Mental Illness and Startups

#25

Post by MartinCron »

thaumaturgy wrote: post #18
MartinCron wrote: post #7

While I don't disagree with this statement: There are people who think that depression means 'feeling low', and that if you try hard enough, you can 'snap out of it'. These people are idiots. It's not a matter of being strong enough or dedicated enough. For me, like most people with depressive illnesses, there will be times when I just plain can't. In my worst states I can barely remember what a for loop does, let al…

Coping mechanisms like that one definitely help -- especially if they get put to use early on in a depressive cycle. A high level of self-awareness, acknowledgement of depression (or other mental illness), certain hobbies, "sunshine therapy", all help to mitigate depression and other mental illnesses. Still, though, there are severe forms of depression that can become invulnerable to all the self-help approaches.

Absolutely, I pointed out a type of cognitive behavioral therapy (behavioral activation) because it's easy advice that may help people.

The science is pretty clear that a combination of medication and professionally-guided CBT has the most effective rates for treating depression, and that some specific treatments specifically don't work at all for some people.

Re: Mental Illness and Startups

#26

Post by Rondrak »

Dove wrote: post #24
MartinCron wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Indeed, that's one of the ways that you diagnose depression. If the things that once made you feel really awesome (sex, motorcycling, coding, gaming, cooking, whatever) no longer hold any appeal for you, that means you're very likely not merely "feeling down" but actually clinically depressed.

The symptom is anhedonia -- the inability to experience pleasure. You can eat a delicious meal, play outside in the sunshine with little kids, have great sex, and through it all feel nothing . It's like when a finger is numb -- you touch things with it thinking, "How odd, I ought to be feeling something." But you don't. It's not just feeling down. It's your brain's ability to feel pleasure being physically broken.

So that's what it's called. I've felt that way for a good portion of my life, and only since I've started getting help in the past year did I realize something was actually wrong that could be fixed (it took someone else's genuine caring for a change to occur).

I originally thought I was just different from everyone else, or that "they" were wasting their lives on pointless pursuits. Now I actually understand why it's so great having a niece to take to the park.

Re: Mental Illness and Startups

#27

Post by tokenadult »

Alex3917 wrote: post #19
thaumaturgy wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unfortunately, professional help isn't free, and there are quite a few people who can't afford it right now. ...alcohol's a cheap medication, anyway.

Alcohol makes mental illnesses vastly worse. (As, apparently, do most psychiatric drugs in the long run.)

As, apparently, do most psychiatric drugs in the long run.

I have to disagree with this statement and ask you to provide better sources than just the result of some Google search. The evidence gathered with citations to peer-reviewed literature in one of the definitive medical textbooks on the issue,

http://www.amazon.com/Manic-Depressive-Illness-Disorders-Rec...

strongly suggests that lithium for bipolar mood disorders has long term benefit. (That's based both on the decades of human use of lithium in some countries and on the basis of animal studies followed up by necropsies of brain tissue.)

Apparently we are all in agreement that "self-medication" with alcohol is a very bad idea. But prescribed medication under supervision by a medical doctor can be a very good idea indeed.

After edit: Thanks for the mention of the interesting book in your reply. I read some of the reviews, and found this useful interview

http://www.salon.com/books/feature/2010/04/27/interview_whit...

with the author, who has a balanced point of view:

"Q: So do you think psychiatric drugs should be used at all?

A: I think they should be used in a selective, cautious manner. . . . I think we should look at programs that are getting very good results. This is what I love about Keropudas Hospital’s program in Finland. They have 20 years of great results treating newly psychotic patients. They see if patients can get better without the use of meds, and if they can’t, then they try them. It’s a best-use model, not a no-use or anti-med model."

After one more edit, an interesting review of the book mentioned in the reply to first version of this post:

http://carlatpsychiatry.blogspot.com/2011/01/anatomy-of-epid...

Re: Mental Illness and Startups

#28

Post by yters »

javert wrote: post #12
JasonMoyMN79 wrote: post #4

If you are depressed, why don't you just go out and do something really awesome? You have nothing to lose, right? So why not do something adventurous? Sell all your shit, move to Europe or South America, and go start a revolution.

I hope this is sarcasm. People have been getting flamed online for saying this exact thing for a while now. The issues of "doing something awesome" and depression are totally orthogonal. Most people already are trying to do whatever they think is really awesome. For example, raise a family and have a steady income; or create a startup; or be an artist; or move to Europe. In fact, the depressed person is probably alre…

I got sent to field training, that cured my depression.

Re: Mental Illness and Startups

#29

Post by Alex3917 »

tokenadult wrote: post #27
Alex3917 wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Alcohol makes mental illnesses vastly worse. (As, apparently, do most psychiatric drugs in the long run.)

As, apparently, do most psychiatric drugs in the long run. I have to disagree with this statement and ask you to provide better sources than just the result of some Google search. The evidence gathered with citations to peer-reviewed literature in one of the definitive medical textbooks on the issue, http://www.amazon.com/Manic-Depressive-Illness-Disorders-Rec... strongly suggests that lithium for bipolar mood disord…

Anatomy of an Epidemic by Robert Whitaker sums up the academic research well.

Re: Mental Illness and Startups

#30

Post by andrewvc »

idoh wrote: post #13

Speaking as someone who has a family member with mental illness: if you have such an illness then please seek professional help right away. If you suspect that someone you care about might have a mental illness then you should urge them to seek professional help right away. Sometimes it is all manageable or heals on its own, but sometimes the illness progresses and the results are tragic, so it needs to be viewed ser…

Eh, psychology and psychiatry are still fairly young sciences. I'd say it's worth a shot, but people put too much faith in it. I've had family members in professional help forever with no noticeable improvements. They'll even admit to it.

My personal opinion is that, while sometimes useful, we just don't know enough about how humans work to really fix a large number of issues. People tend to go to psychiatrists persistently even after no track record of improvement out of the fear that they'll get worse. No one will ever recommend that anyone 'give up' on professional help out of the fear that saying so will make them responsible for the negative consequences.

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