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Ultra-processed foods and the corporate capture of nutrition

bmj.com

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Re: Ultra-processed foods and the corporate capture of nutrition

#171

Post by thatfrenchguy »

acuozzo wrote: post #116
inglor_cz wrote: post #104

Just by comparing photos and videos from the 1980s to the situation in the streets now, it is painfully obvious that we (and by "we" I mean at least half of humanity) have a serious obesity and metabolic syndrome problem. It is breathtaking how civilized nations silently accept such an enormous slide in quality of life, when other, much smaller problems lead to civic unrest, political discussions and overhaul of old…

(Please forgive the scattered reply. I'm tired and I've mostly pieced this together from other discussions I've had on this topic.) I firmly believe that the problem stems from a mass unspoken refusal to address obesity as a symptom of food addiction. Food addiction is among the hardest to kick because humans not only need food to survive, but also need glucose (and/or ketone bodies) in order to have sufficient menta…

> I firmly believe that the problem stems from a mass unspoken refusal to address obesity as a symptom of food addiction.

Meh, it's also easy in the United States to be stuck in a lifestyle where you can't walk anywhere.

Re: Ultra-processed foods and the corporate capture of nutrition

#173

Post by dragontamer »

blix wrote: post #138
dragontamer wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Please stop hating on pork belly. It is fine in moderation. I know I can finish an entire pound of pork belly tonight if I am given the opportunity. I'm not going to do it, because I know that's not "in moderation". The amount of nutrition you get from 1-lb of pork belly will be miniscule compared to a properly balanced meal. But its so damn tasty that you really can just keep shoving that sort of thing into your m…

Pork belly contains important macronutrients like protein and fat, which is part of why it tastes good. Despite that, I know I can stop eating it when choose to. Pork belly itself is not a problem; the problem is unhealthy eating habits. Thankfully, habits can be learned, unlearned, and modified. "X in moderation" is pretty good advice for most X. It just turns out many people are quite bad at moderation, prefering i…

> Seriously, read that book.

If you have a point to be made, you can make it here and now without the need of a hundred-page reference. I understand you put a lot of work into reading books about diets or whatever, but I also make my arguments based on the findings supported by a large body of research.

I'm not going to ask you to read through all of the reference material I'm using to build up my arguments. At best, I'm going to point out the FDA + Department of Agriculture studies on health and nutrition which inform my decisions and arguments.

But anyone who says "my argument is in a book elsewhere" is just... going to be ignored by me. Just an FYI. That's also why I'm not shoving FDA or Department of Agriculture whitepapers into your face.

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The mainstream science of food, eating, and nutrition is pretty simple and straightforward. Have a balanced meal (multiple forms of fruits and vegetables. Roughly 1/2 the meat of the average American. Grossly lower sugar intake compared to the average American). That's it.

These papers on "ultraprocessed foods" or "alternative diets" may have something about them, but it is the job of its advocates to make solid arguments about why the mainstream thought is insufficient or inadequate.

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What can I say about diets? Some people have a strong ability to stick to diets, while others do not. Studying the psychology of "what makes people feel full" is an important part of the equation.

Some people just can't help themselves. For those people, you teach them psychology, so that they trick themselves into healthy eating.

Re: Ultra-processed foods and the corporate capture of nutrition

#174

Post by YeGoblynQueenne »

an_opabinia wrote: post #102
PragmaticPulp wrote: post #12

This statistic from the article is mind-boggling: > Ultra-processed products now account for nearly half of the average dietary intake of some high income countries, with consumption rising rapidly in most other countries. Note that they aren't just referring to processed foods. They classify ultra-processed foods as a step beyond what we typically think of as processed foods: > Ultra-processed foods and beverages ca…

Ultraprocessed is a counter marketing term from the meat and dairy lobby. It is authored in opposition to things like Impossible Burger and Beyond Meat. Nobody uses this term organically, look in Google Trends yourself. It is an obvious and conspicuous marker of a campaign, exactly equivalent to something like “drinkability,” an Anheuser Busch marketing term. This is a market that traditionally derives most of its pr…

>> Ultraprocessed is a counter marketing term from the meat and dairy lobby.

This sentence risks framing industrially manufactured food products as equally nutritious to meat and dairy (and fruit and vegetables, beans and pulses, eggs and fish, etc. etc.).

Re: Ultra-processed foods and the corporate capture of nutrition

#175

Post by ACow_Adonis »

ClumsyPilot wrote: post #147
01100011 wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

45 here. Here's what I've noticed since the 80s: - More wealth and more choices now. - More eating out now. Meals are bigger, sweeter, richer, etc. - Less activity now. When I was a kid, video games were just getting started and most folks didn't own computers. TV & media was less engaging. Food addiction seems more... refined these days. There is a lot less fat shaming too, although I'm not suggesting we bring it ba…

Sweeter indeed, amount of sugar im food is absolutely insane these days. I am from Russia, and food in Uk is like 3 times sweeter, there is added sugar on freaking Roasted Vegetables! Its bonkers!

what's scary is that you said UK and not US. Coming from other Anglo cultures and going to the US feels similar to what you describe moving from Russia. instant increase in added sugar and serving sizes.

Re: Ultra-processed foods and the corporate capture of nutrition

#176

Post by dragontamer »

chubot wrote: post #103
dragontamer wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But, my original point was that oil _is_ highly processed. You're not familiar with this new "unprocessed" vs "processed" vs "ultraprocessed" designation then. https://worldnutritionjournal.org/index.php/wn/article/view/... Oils are a "Group 2", low-processed food. Page 5: > Group 2 items are rarely consumed in the absence of group 1 foods. Examples are salt mined or from seawater; sugar and molasses obtained from…

vegetable oils crushed from olives or seeds; butter and lard obtained from milk and pork; and starches extracted from corn and other plants The distinction is accurate: These are unprocessed oils, and there is a big difference between them and the processed oil that fast food is fried in, and that industrial cooking uses. The same plaintains fried in ultraprocessed vs. unprocessed Oils is going to be worse for you. S…

> The distinction is accurate: These are unprocessed oils, and there is a big difference between them and the processed oil that fast food is fried in, and that industrial cooking uses.

Five Guys uses pure peanut oil for their fast-food frying. Does that make their burgers / fries any healthier than alternatives?

Or is the innate carbohydrates + oil combination a high-calorie, fundamentally unhealthy thing to consume, no matter how "Fresh" the potatoes are or how "unprocessed" the oils are?

Re: Ultra-processed foods and the corporate capture of nutrition

#177

Post by bumby »

curryst wrote: post #149
inglor_cz wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am just watching the British "Supersize Vs Superskinny" series. The heavy articipants have serious addiction problem, obviously. The question is whether some foods are inherently addictive, at least for some people who are more predisposed to food addiction. There are some obvious commonalities in the diets of the superfatties: pretty much every one of them consumes a lot of pizza, fries, soft drinks and various fa…

> The question is whether some foods are inherently addictive, at least for some people who are more predisposed to food addiction. In some sense, yes, because to get to extremely high weights, you need to consume extremely high amounts of food. Your stomach will grow, but I would imagine a person would struggle to eat enough carrots to weigh 500 pounds. Quick napkin math says some obese people eat 6700 calories a da…

>If we added a 10% tax to soft drinks, fries and pizza

The argument against this is that it becomes a regressive tax scheme. Many in the lower income strata disproportionately eat these foods because they are convenient and relatively cheap. A 10% increase in the food budget of someone at or near poverty isn’t trivial.

Talk to chefs at high-end restaurants and you’ll see how much fat is inherent in (or gets added to) “luxury” food as well. But I almost never hear about them in the discussion about fat/sugar taxes. I’m not necessarily against the idea, just not in favor of the classist way it’s usually discussed.

Re: Ultra-processed foods and the corporate capture of nutrition

#178

Post by thorwasdfasdf »

acuozzo wrote: post #130
inglor_cz wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am just watching the British "Supersize Vs Superskinny" series. The heavy articipants have serious addiction problem, obviously. The question is whether some foods are inherently addictive, at least for some people who are more predisposed to food addiction. There are some obvious commonalities in the diets of the superfatties: pretty much every one of them consumes a lot of pizza, fries, soft drinks and various fa…

I'm sure some foods are inherently addictive, but I hesitate to put the blame on specific foods because I gained most of my weight from eating sushi rice… a pot at a time. My experience suggests to me that food addiction is primarily psychological in nature and is often the result of a history of "experience coupling" (examples to follow) and a genuine misunderstanding of what feeling "full" truly feels like. Most ob…

please note: sushi rice is not just plain white rice. Sushi rice often has sugar added to it, that's a big part of what makes it so addictive. And then, in the sushi itself, they often add oils, mayonaise (also made from oils), and sugary syrups on top too.

Re: Ultra-processed foods and the corporate capture of nutrition

#179

Post by jasode »

sg47 wrote: post #168
jasode wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>, but in my experience most people prefer these foods because they think it's more convenient. [...] Everyone should learn how to cook some boring, staple meals using basic ingredients from the store. It's amazing how many people don't know how easy and cheap it can be to prepare simple crock pot or stir-fry meals that are healthy and delicious. I'm a strict health food eater but I have to be realistic and concede t…

Can you share your green smoothie drink recipe?

My greenie is not the sweet kind and very simple.

The 2 bulk ingredients are kale and tomato. To save time, you can use canned tomatoes (half can of diced tomatoes). Then add for flavor... basil, olive oil, lemon/lime juice. I sometimes add spoonfuls of ground flax seed and hemp. The purpose of olive oil is to add some fat to satiate the appetite and also give it a buttery flavor. The purpose of lemon/lime juice is to mask the bitterness of raw greens.

If you prefer sweet smoothies, there are lots of youtube videos showing recipes with bananas/apples/blueberries/cherries/yogurt, etc.

EDIT ADD: you can try spinach instead of kale or mix kale+spinach. To add even more flavor, you can try sun-dried tomatoes (in jar of oil) but that ingredient makes it more expensive to drink every day.

Re: Ultra-processed foods and the corporate capture of nutrition

#180

Post by sg47 »

jasode wrote: post #179
sg47 wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you share your green smoothie drink recipe?

My greenie is not the sweet kind and very simple. The 2 bulk ingredients are kale and tomato. To save time, you can use canned tomatoes (half can of diced tomatoes). Then add for flavor... basil, olive oil, lemon/lime juice. I sometimes add spoonfuls of ground flax seed and hemp. The purpose of olive oil is to add some fat to satiate the appetite and also give it a buttery flavor. The purpose of lemon/lime juice is t…

I'm actually trying to avoid sweet smoothies. So you just add kale, tomato and other ingredients you mentioned? I'm just worried if that much kale will bother my stomach. I'll give it a shot though. Seems like a great breakfast.
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