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Firefox Was Always Enough

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Re: Firefox Was Always Enough

#591

Post by zamadatix »

fabrice_d wrote: post #421
zamadatix wrote: post #408

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So I guess the question is what made KaiOS able to succeed instead of fail if we're saying the problems FirefoxOS faced weren't execution? Was it simply different timing and now more operators are willing to partner?

The GP is mostly wrong. What killed FxOS in the market is the lack of official support for one extremely popular messaging application starting by W. Then Mozilla's leadership didn't have the patience to wait for the right opportunity.

This doesn't really answer the question any it just adds more speculation in between again. But to rewrite the question with the new speculation - what made KaiOS able to succeed in starting without WhatsApp support and eventually getting it (last year) instead of failing on both counts like FirefoxOS did?

I.e. if you've got something to claim as the reason it can't also apply to KaiOS unless there was something KaiOS did right that Mozilla didn't.

Re: Firefox Was Always Enough

#592

Post by geogra4 »

Banana699 wrote: post #577
geogra4 wrote: post #303

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's scary is that even Microsoft has essentially given up on an independent browser engine

A bit out of the loop here, apparently: what's wrong with the browser market agreeing on an open source core ?

My understanding is that chromium is about as open source as Android is.

Re: Firefox Was Always Enough

#593

Post by BrendanEich »

pseudalopex wrote: post #373
BrendanEich wrote: post #228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We support uMatrix as extension and will continue to do so even after Chrome breaks it via Manifest V3. We don't build all its powers in (yet).

uMatrix was abandoned. Did you mean uBlock Origin?

No, I mean uMatrix.

https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail//ogfcmafjalglgifnm...

Re: Firefox Was Always Enough

#594

Post by lucideer »

dec0dedab0de wrote: post #426
lucideer wrote: post #146

It's curious that the 4 bullet points in the final section don't make any mention of open source (in fact, the article doesn't at all). I think Opera Software circa 2012 was doing all of the things we would hope for/expect from Mozilla & Firefox, and doing them much better than Mozilla could. Bar one: it was not open source. When I made the switch to Firefox in 2012, it was my belief that I would not have been forced…

I felt the same way in 2002, and although I like opensource the reason I dropped opera was because it came with built in ads. I switched to phoenix, then firebird, then firefox, and have not looked back. Except for a year or so where i primarily used konqueror, but that was only because I was using kde and it was built in. The one cool feature i considered going back to opera for was built in torrent support, I reall…

Funnily enough I used Firebird/Firefox before Opera: I had avoided it because of the ads. It wasn't until they removed ads that I gave it a try.

Re: Firefox Was Always Enough

#595

Post by thaumasiotes »

chrisseaton wrote: post #583
thaumasiotes wrote: post #484

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Windows Phone, WebOS, Meego and Ubuntu Phone all "failed" around the same time period as Firefox OS. I have a hard time laying blame solely on Mozilla there. I've seen a number of comments on Windows Phone since then (on HN), and one and all they emphasize how much better and nicer Windows Phone was -- from a consumer perspective -- than any other phone. What was the failure? This isn't a retrospective that makes a…

> What was the failure? This isn't a retrospective that makes any sense. People didn't buy it. Simple as that. Doesn't matter how much better people think the consumer experience is if nobody's buying it.

Except that, again, that makes for a completely nonsensical theory of what happened. You can't just say "it was vastly superior to everything else, so it failed because no one would buy it". You need to explain why no one would buy it, because the only data in your model says that people should be buying it in droves.

Re: Firefox Was Always Enough

#597

Post by dschuessler »

ludocode wrote: post #48
thoughtleader31 wrote: post #17

Safari is definitely in the technological pessimism camp as that's Apple's party line on the open web. Safari has continuously caused "headache" to businesses that rely on tracking user behavior for years now, as Apple is very bent on protecting your privacy from every other company outside or inside their walled garden.

They claim to be in the technological pessimism camp. I don't believe their poor support for progressive web apps is truly about privacy and security, but rather to force apps to go through their App Store so they get a cut of the revenue.

These aren't mutually exclusive but rather well aligned goals.

I find it odd to ask whether any non-monetary goals are "truly" their goals. They are a listed company. Of course they want to make profit. But they do so in part by means of providing privacy and security.

Re: Firefox Was Always Enough

#598

Post by chrisseaton »

thaumasiotes wrote: post #595
chrisseaton wrote: post #583

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What was the failure? This isn't a retrospective that makes any sense. People didn't buy it. Simple as that. Doesn't matter how much better people think the consumer experience is if nobody's buying it.

Except that, again, that makes for a completely nonsensical theory of what happened. You can't just say "it was vastly superior to everything else, so it failed because no one would buy it". You need to explain why no one would buy it, because the only data in your model says that people should be buying it in droves.

> You need to explain why no one would buy it

I don’t need to do anything!

The only thing that matters is people didn’t buy it. It wasn’t a success.

Re: Firefox Was Always Enough

#599

Post by Shorel »

johannes1234321 wrote: post #584
dralley wrote: post #530

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The donated money is complete peanuts compared to the search engine revenue, anyways.

Now we could speculate how much money they could collect with some Wikipedia-Luke banners in the browser and with the purpose of developing Firefox ... true, less than what Google pays, but how much do they need if they focus on browser (and maybe mail) instead of side projects?

Did not work with Opera. I doubt ad banners would work in any modern software.

Re: Firefox Was Always Enough

#600

Post by toastal »

thaumasiotes wrote: post #492
toastal wrote: post #461

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder what markets WhatsApp is important to. In the UK quite a few people used it while briefly lived there, but in the US, Thailand, Vietnam, et.al. I didn't see anyone using or ever talking about it.

Adding on to the other comments, I understand it is the default messaging app in Australia / New Zealand. More roughly, my understanding of the messaging space was: - USA: Facebook Messenger - Japan, Taiwan: LINE - China: WeChat - Everywhere Else in the World: WhatsApp And the comments here seem to basically bear that out.

Thailand is very much LINE and a close second is Messenger
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