Facebook Takes Out Newspaper Ads to Attack Apple's Strengthening iOS Privacy • Hacker News Board

Re: Facebook Takes Out Newspaper Ads to Attack Apple's Strengthening iOS Privacy

#141

Post by ogre_codes » Thu, Dec 17, 2020, 5:20 PM UTC

bluelu wrote: post #74

greggman3 wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> once people actually understand the scope of ad tracking networks... they don’t want it. I wish this was true but I have friends who want the perceived benefits. They firmly believe handing over that data benefits them. More relevant ads, more useful services and features, more free stuff, etc. I bring up yet another place I don't want to be tracked and they just retort they want to share as much info as possible.

I also don't mind being tracked. If I must see ads, then I rather see relevant ads. There is nothing bad in this. I don't understand the facebook/google bashing here. It's not as you could advertise on apple for something against apple. It should also be clear to you what game Apple is playing here. Their end game is to do the tracking themselves and then they will slowly introduce and sell ads themselves. Their mark…

That's why there will be the super handy "Opt In" tag on these notifications so people who like tracking can get the benefits!

Meanwhile, the rest of the planet who are unaware they are being tracked or can't figure out how to disable it will be clear of much tracking.

Re: Facebook Takes Out Newspaper Ads to Attack Apple's Strengthening iOS Privacy

#142

Post by _greim_ » Thu, Dec 17, 2020, 5:23 PM UTC

zpeti wrote: post #55

firloop wrote: post #7

> Users can easily choose to keep providing Facebook (and anyone else) with all the information they want. Or they can choose not to. This part hits the nail on the head. Facebook is intentionally being misleading in this campaign. I’ve had the IDFA turned off on my phone for years. Now apps have to ask for it individually. If apps have to prompt to access it, and this benefits small businesses so much, wouldn’t peop…

I am extremely torn about this thing, especially as I work in the privacy space. But it's hard to ignore the argument put forward by Ben Thompson that better tracking for facebook, actually tends to help small businesses. If you can't hyper target, you get ads for tooth paste, cars and deodorant (TV ads). If you can then you get ads for boutique florists in your area or gadgets you might actually like. I don't know w…

I assume "hyper targeting" in this case means tracking and correlating an individual across different apps. My question is, even if they're prevented from doing that, can't they use your location to serve you ads for small businesses in your area?

Re: Facebook Takes Out Newspaper Ads to Attack Apple's Strengthening iOS Privacy

#143

Post by ChildOfChaos » Thu, Dec 17, 2020, 5:24 PM UTC

Apple should sue Facebook for Slander.

All apple is doing is giving users a choice and Facebook is twisting it to make Apple look bad as it effects there business, they are trying to paint Apple as the big corporate evil overlord by playing the small business card.

Apple should grow some balls and double down.

Re: Facebook Takes Out Newspaper Ads to Attack Apple's Strengthening iOS Privacy

#144

Post by willcipriano » Thu, Dec 17, 2020, 5:25 PM UTC

AnthonyMouse wrote: post #132

dannyw wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Allowing small businesses to tack on a stealth 5% charge onto your credit card also helps small businesses, but would you advocate for that?

If you could convince credit card companies to waive their fees for small businesses and make it back by charging more to big businesses, that could be a pretty big win.

That will lead to what happened to farm subsidies. They were targeted to small farms so the large farms broke themselves into a series of small farms to maximize the subsidy.

Re: Facebook Takes Out Newspaper Ads to Attack Apple's Strengthening iOS Privacy

#145

Post by samizdis » Thu, Dec 17, 2020, 5:26 PM UTC

wcerfgba wrote: post #8

The ad: https://twitter.com/DaveStangis/status/1339183289349918721/p...

Thanks for posting that. I can't help thinking that FB has just invented some weird variant of the Streisand effect. The jaundiced yet vague wording states that many small businesses have, apparently, voiced concern over "Apple's forced software update" - but FB is so coy about providing any detail that this surely prompts the reader to seek more info.

Re: Facebook Takes Out Newspaper Ads to Attack Apple's Strengthening iOS Privacy

#146

Post by choward » Thu, Dec 17, 2020, 5:28 PM UTC

Grustaf wrote: post #91

sbuk wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd argue, that the target demographic here are the ones that likely consume their news through physical mediums, like news papers. I'd imagine younger politicians (there are sadly not many 'old' non-white politicians) consume their news online. No stats for this, or any sources, but I think it's a fairly reasonable assumption to make.

Yes I suppose it's a question of ad demographics here, though why place a newspaper ad if you just want to reach politicians, then just use your lobbyists. I'm sure they want to reach voters, not politicians. But either way, why say "old white" when the point is that they are old enough to read print media. They are targeted because they are old, not because of their color. Why bring race into it, except for virtue s…

> why place a newspaper ad if you just want to reach politicians

I'm guessing it's similar to the reason pharmaceutical companies use TV ads to reach doctors.

Re: Facebook Takes Out Newspaper Ads to Attack Apple's Strengthening iOS Privacy

#147

Post by ogre_codes » Thu, Dec 17, 2020, 5:28 PM UTC

lifeisstillgood wrote: post #51

What is the price differential between contextual ads (you searched for "running shoe" have a nike advert) and personalised ads (you are Paul, we know you have a heart condition and low income and are going through a divorce - have an ad for this dating site while you search for running shoes) Duck Duck Go clearly think there is profit in contextual ads - and I would love to find out if there is any hard evidence out…

> (you are Paul, we know you have a heart condition and low income and are going through a divorce - have an ad for this dating site while you search for running shoes)

IMO this is fundamentally what's wrong with the entire concept of personalized advertising. Fundamentally the system is advertised as being designed to show you relevant advertising. The reality is the system is designed to allow advertisers super-precise targets to send their advertising to.

You don't get advertising relevant to you. You get advertising from the people most interested in targeting you. This is often not what you want to see and is often not in your best interest.

Re: Facebook Takes Out Newspaper Ads to Attack Apple's Strengthening iOS Privacy

#148

Post by ogre_codes » Thu, Dec 17, 2020, 5:32 PM UTC

akudha wrote: post #64

Privacy arguments, lying etc aside, how is taking out news paper ads to attack Apple a good idea? Apple may have problems, but they are infinitely better than Facebook in every metric imaginable. They make useful products, wildly profitable/bigger than Facebook can only dream of. Even if Facebook had facts on their side, this is a bad idea. Intentionally misleading ads against one of the world's richest, most capable…

They are trying to sway opinions on the issue in their favor. My guess is they want small businesses owners or people who favor small businesses on their side of this issue. If you've used Facebook's advertising for your business or profited from advertisements in your app, this might be important.

Re: Facebook Takes Out Newspaper Ads to Attack Apple's Strengthening iOS Privacy

#149

Post by jkubicek » Thu, Dec 17, 2020, 5:33 PM UTC

This is being presented like Apple is eliminating the ability to perform hyper-specific ad targeting at individuals. No matter how locked down the Apple platform becomes, Facebook still knows exactly who my friends are, where I'm posting pictures from, what brands I've engaged with, that I really like outdoorsy pictures on Instagram. I'm fine with this, I'm engaging with Facebook and I expect them to use that data to target ads at me.

What these changes in iOS affect is their ability to track me across my apps via the advertiser ID when I explicitly take steps to avoid being tracked (alternate email addresses, not entering my phone number).

How can anyone defend Facebook's need to know everything I do on my phone despite me taking reasonable* steps to hide that information?

* I feel the need to point out that my "reasonable" steps are for a moderately savvy user of technology. I'd guess that the vast majority of internet users aren't aware that Facebook knows everything you on almost any site you sign into with the same email address.

Re: Facebook Takes Out Newspaper Ads to Attack Apple's Strengthening iOS Privacy

#150

Post by ogre_codes » Thu, Dec 17, 2020, 5:35 PM UTC

zpeti wrote: post #58

FriedrichN wrote: post #54

"At Facebook, small business is at the core of our business." Has someone here worked in marketing/PR? How can people write stuff like that and not feel incredibly dirty? This is a mostly honest question. Every time some super big company starts some campaign feigning compassion or act the victim I just want to barf.

This isn't actually a lie. As much as you might hate FB using all your data for ads, that does actually mean that small businesses can hyper target their customers. I personally don't see any ads on FB for mass market products, like on TV (cards, detergent, back pain medicine etc). I see gadgets that are cool, clothes from small producers that are actually kind fo cool. They do actually help small businesses. As much…

> I personally don't see any ads on FB for mass market products,

This won't affect Facebook itself much at all, it's going to hit smaller apps who use Facebook's advertising in app.

Haven't used Facebook in some time personally, but I can't recall much about advertising aside from the fact that it never interested me enough to actually click on it.