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Child-safety laws may reduce the birth rate

economist.com

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Re: Child-safety laws may reduce the birth rate

#381

Post by giantg2 »

seanicus wrote: post #375
lotsofpulp wrote: post #328

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t think people mean copy it in it’s current form, at least not forever. It’s just a catchy name to refer to a program where the government pays for healthcare, even though the current iteration of Medicare is hardly that. The idea is probably to expand the current system to everyone, which is better than nothing, and then work on improving it.

Hard to get velocity behind improving something half the voting population would rather be rid of, even if it's against the very same voting population's best interest. So it goes in the US.

Well it makes sense if you have politicians consistently selling you misrepresented ideas like "Medicare for all" or "Defund the police". Of course you will start to lose trust in the system and the officials.

I think the bigger issue is how the divide between the parties happens. People seem to demonize the other side based on a specific issue that is important to them and then extrapolate that view to all positions held by the party on the basis that "all [party] politicians are stupid because of their stance on [issue] so their ideas on other issues are stupid too".

For a generalized example, the divide is mostly urban vs rural (even in other countries). A major single-issue voting topic would be gun rights vs gun control. A rural person thinks a new gun control law is stupid because the law seeks to ban certain items that statistically don't cause many problems and they find utility in their gun rights (more likely to hunt, slow police response, etc). An urban person would think the new law is good because "why does anyone need that item" and they find little to no utility in those rights (less likely to own a gun, carry a gun, hunt, faster police response, more exposure to the negative news/affects just due to population density). Each side thinks the other is stupid on this subject. People then think, hey the urban person wants to take away my rights on guns on (what appears as) stupid reasoning, so I don't trust their proposal to federalize healthcare because their logic/brain must be deficient. Then urban people will say these dumb hicks "...are clinging to their guns and bibles..." so they must be too stupid to know what's good for them. Which leads to neither side actually listening to the concerns of the other like a community should and instead just trying to gain full control of the government to ram through whatever laws their side wants.

Re: Child-safety laws may reduce the birth rate

#382

Post by fatnoah »

PopeDotNinja wrote: post #171
irateswami wrote: post #15

This is an actual conversation I had to have with my wife, having a third kid definitely requires a larger vehicle as the vast majority of cars today simply don't work for a family of five. Child car seats are too wide and the backseats of most cars are too narrow, and the price jump to a vehicle that would be able to handle three child car seats at once is enormous. Throw in some dogs, a couple pieces of luggage tha…

> the vast majority of cars today simply don't work for a family of five I recently visited Pakistan for the first time, and was amazed to see a family of five riding around on a small Honda motorbike. The father was driving, a small child sat in front of the father, the was mother hanging on behind the father, and the oldest daughter sitting on the far back with both legs hanging off to the left while holding an inf…

>> the vast majority of cars today simply don't work for a family of five

My wife and I had the minivan discussion. They are amazingly practical when you need to carry vast amounts of crap. Neither of us was particularly interested in driving around in one though, so we optimized by carrying less crap around.

I'd say about 99% of our usage of our 4 door sedan or small SUV requires no additional cargo capacity for our family. For the other 1% of the time, we're able to optimize by carrying less stuff. I think there has been 1 or 2 times in 13 years where cargo capacity was insufficient. For us, it was a tradeoff worth making.

We totally respect those who make different choices, though. Everyone has their own preferences and needs.

Re: Child-safety laws may reduce the birth rate

#383

Post by giantg2 »

lotsofpulp wrote: post #286
Forbo wrote: post #219

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I vouched for your comment, because I'm also curious. What healthcare costs is Medicare not covering?

Medicare pays primarily for emergency hospitalization scenarios (referred to as Part A). Anything that happens outside of a hospital stay (called outpatient services) and medications come from Parts B, C, and D. Coverage for parts B, C, and D is insanely complicated and involves some means testing and who knows what else. There’s private health insurers involved too, and if you can’t afford that, then you can go to t…

Yep. I would rather have them give me that 3% to invest myself. Investing $2k annually for 40 years could yield me $250k-$350k at retirement age. But I guess I'm just a dumb peasant who can't take care of myself.

Re: Child-safety laws may reduce the birth rate

#384

Post by ashtonkem »

pandaman wrote: post #288
ashtonkem wrote: post #270

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are plenty of car seats that’ll fit 3 across in a CR-V. There are plenty that’ll go 3 across in a civic , although the lack of trunk space for strollers would obviously be an issue with three children. You can’t buy any random car seat, of course, but an ounce of up front research will help you pick one that’ll fit. I find it kind of perplexing how many people pretend that you simply cannot put 3 child seats in…

The problem is that you don't just put child seats into the car for fun - you are supposed to put children in them too. Children are not going to teleport in and out and they need to crawl/be put in their seats. The middle seat will be a hard reach in a compact.

That is a wholly different argument from “they won’t fit”.

I absolutely agree that a larger vehicle is more convenient for people with 3 or more kids. But that isn’t the argument people have been making in this thread. The assertions it that you can’t fit 3 car seats in these cars, an assertion which is provably false.

Re: Child-safety laws may reduce the birth rate

#385

Post by DanBC »

ashtonkem wrote: post #270
pandaman wrote: post #243

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You assume any SUV is automatically the size of Suburban so you skipped over CR-V and RAV4, which should be just under the tucks in any best selling vehicles list? They do not have much more passenger room than a Civic (more headroom but the size and distance between the seats is basically the same). A "compact SUV" is a thing.

There are plenty of car seats that’ll fit 3 across in a CR-V. There are plenty that’ll go 3 across in a civic , although the lack of trunk space for strollers would obviously be an issue with three children. You can’t buy any random car seat, of course, but an ounce of up front research will help you pick one that’ll fit. I find it kind of perplexing how many people pretend that you simply cannot put 3 child seats in…

Which Civic are you talking about? Here's a review that shows they can only really fit two seats (and this car only has two ISOFIX fittings on the outside seats).

https://babydrive.com.au/reviews/hatches/2017-honda-civic-vt...

> Installing child seats came with a few difficulties too. I could fit two child seats in the Civic in the outer back seats, there was not enough room for a middle child seat too.

Re: Child-safety laws may reduce the birth rate

#386

Post by kube-system »

ClumsyPilot wrote: post #361
kube-system wrote: post #218

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some tests have found that brand new seats break when loaded near their stated limits. I think it is reasonable to say that plastic weakened due to the relatively harsh thermal and UV conditions in a car would fare worse. https://www.consumerreports.org/toddler-booster-seats/child-...

I don't think a seat will get any UV exposure in a car, UV does not pass through glass

Glass blocks most, but not all UV [0]. And people open their windows sometimes.

[0]: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/12925188/

Re: Child-safety laws may reduce the birth rate

#387

Post by ldiracdelta »

1-6 wrote: post #155
irateswami wrote: post #15

This is an actual conversation I had to have with my wife, having a third kid definitely requires a larger vehicle as the vast majority of cars today simply don't work for a family of five. Child car seats are too wide and the backseats of most cars are too narrow, and the price jump to a vehicle that would be able to handle three child car seats at once is enormous. Throw in some dogs, a couple pieces of luggage tha…

Let's not forget the expiration dates on Car Safety Seats. C'mon, really? Seats with Styrofoam may deteriorate eventually but I haven't heard of a casualties due to expired car seats.

Regulatory Capture https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regulatory_capture

It isn't the exception; it is the rule. Bodies that govern an industry are _inevitably_ captured by the industry they govern, because that industry has the absolute highest incentive to write the rules it has to follow.

Re: Child-safety laws may reduce the birth rate

#388

Post by ashtonkem »

DanBC wrote: post #385
ashtonkem wrote: post #270

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are plenty of car seats that’ll fit 3 across in a CR-V. There are plenty that’ll go 3 across in a civic , although the lack of trunk space for strollers would obviously be an issue with three children. You can’t buy any random car seat, of course, but an ounce of up front research will help you pick one that’ll fit. I find it kind of perplexing how many people pretend that you simply cannot put 3 child seats in…

Which Civic are you talking about? Here's a review that shows they can only really fit two seats (and this car only has two ISOFIX fittings on the outside seats). https://babydrive.com.au/reviews/hatches/2017-honda-civic-vt... > Installing child seats came with a few difficulties too. I could fit two child seats in the Civic in the outer back seats, there was not enough room for a middle child seat too.

Obviously not the coupe.

I’m not sure about ISOFIX anchors, but here in the US the LATCH anchor system actually has a relatively low weight limit, typically 40-65 lbs (including weight of seat) depending on how it’s installed. Beyond that weight limit, you’re supposed to skip the anchors and just use the regular seatbelt.

This would be an issue if you have 3 children that need rear facing seats. But given that we typically transition kids into forward facing seats between 1-4 years old, realistically you’d need twins or triplets before this is a necessity. A parent with 3 kids could attach a seat in the middle via seatbelts for the oldest child, and use the anchors on the outside seats for the younger child.

Not as convenient as a 3 row SUV, I’ll agree. But far from impossible.

https://www.thecarcrashdetective.com/3-across-installations-...

Re: Child-safety laws may reduce the birth rate

#389

Post by irrational »

gwd wrote: post #340
irrational wrote: post #293

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Twice as much cargo as an SUV? We have both a minivan (Toyota sienna) and an SUV (Chevy Suburban) and the SUV easily has quadruple the cargo space as the minivan.

Can you move an upright piano in it? The thing that finally turned me off to SUVs was when I managed to find an upright piano for $200, and none of my friends with SUVs could help me move it -- I ended up borrowing my mom's minivan (with the seats taken out). At that point I decided that sure, an SUV looks more "manly", but I'd rather have a vehicle that can actually get the job done.

This is true. We used to take horses (miniature horses, but horses) in our minivan. They wouldn’t have been able to stand upright in our suburban. We got some really odd stares when people would see a horse with its head between the drivers and passengers seats, looking out the windshield.

Re: Child-safety laws may reduce the birth rate

#390

Post by irrational »

zo1 wrote: post #345
irrational wrote: post #297

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The only places with high birth rates are Africa and SE Asia. These days complaining of birth rates has a tinge of racism. Wouldn’t want too many more brown and black people would we? Especially with white birth rates in a free fall that doesn’t seem to have a bottom.

A lot of the "too many people" complaints are directed at the West and 1st-World countries. So not complaints about "too many black/brown people", but rather "too many White/Western people", which is obviously not racist at all!

Ironic if true since given current trends there won’t be many white/western people left within a short amount of time.
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