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Tech Preview of Docker Desktop for M1

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Re: Tech Preview of Docker Desktop for M1

#211

Post by Jonnax »

Axsuul wrote: post #137
gmaster1440 wrote: post #57

I've tried one of the preview builds as part of their Developer Preview Program[1] and it's super fast when you're running an arm64 image, as opposed to an amd64 that will automatically be run via qemu (and therefore incur some overhead). By "super fast", I mean I was seeing speeds comparable to running the commands natively on the M1 mac (npm install and a heavy Gulp build). [1] - https://www.docker.com/community/ge…

How close are we to be able to deploy arm64 images to production/AWS/GCP?

You can have done this for about 2 years.

Re: Tech Preview of Docker Desktop for M1

#212

Post by dividedbyzero »

Axsuul wrote: post #137
gmaster1440 wrote: post #57

I've tried one of the preview builds as part of their Developer Preview Program[1] and it's super fast when you're running an arm64 image, as opposed to an amd64 that will automatically be run via qemu (and therefore incur some overhead). By "super fast", I mean I was seeing speeds comparable to running the commands natively on the M1 mac (npm install and a heavy Gulp build). [1] - https://www.docker.com/community/ge…

How close are we to be able to deploy arm64 images to production/AWS/GCP?

Seems like GCP isn't offering this currently. It's available on AWS EC2: https://aws.amazon.com/ec2/graviton/

Re: Tech Preview of Docker Desktop for M1

#213

Post by jsjohnst »

TheOperator wrote: post #195
jsjohnst wrote: post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The screensize/weight ratio, the screensize/body size ratio Based on HN comments, one of the most popular non-Apple laptops seems to be the Dell XPS. XPS: via https://downloads.dell.com/manuals/all-products/esuprt_lapto... - 15.61” - 4.14lbs - overall dimensions 14.06 x 9.27 x 0.66in or about 86in^3 Apple 16” MBP: via Apple.com - 16” screen - 4.3lbs - overall dimensions 14.09in x 9.68in x 0.64in or about 87.3in^3 —…

The 16" slipped my mind, that varient to me was the first "good" laptop apple released in years but they were pushing a dated 15" model not so long ago. This laptop had quite a bit of overheating issues to the point you can't even drive all the monitors it says it supports on the spec sheet off the iGPU anywhere close to comfortably. The 13" models which I'm more interested in are more dated and more behind in terms…

I’m not going to continue doing your laptop buyers homework for you, but I just checked the T480 spec sheet[0]:

weight/screensize ratio: .25lb/in Screensize/bodysize: 86.9%

So definitely not way ahead either, actually behind the first two on one of your criteria.

Look, it’s obvious you have a bias against Apple, likely even a justified one. I have reasons I hate them too. But can we please not post baseless claims like you seem to be doing? I personally feel folks doing that are contributing to the huge backwards slide of content quality on the internet. If you want to say you prefer non-Apple laptops, that’s entirely fine, just don’t try to justify your decision with arbitrary ratios without actually running the numbers and seeing if Apple really is “far behind the competition” on those arbitrary criteria.

[0] - https://psref.lenovo.com/syspool/Sys/PDF/datasheet/ThinkPad_...

Re: Tech Preview of Docker Desktop for M1

#214

Post by jsjohnst »

qz2 wrote: post #206
jsjohnst wrote: post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The screensize/weight ratio, the screensize/body size ratio Based on HN comments, one of the most popular non-Apple laptops seems to be the Dell XPS. XPS: via https://downloads.dell.com/manuals/all-products/esuprt_lapto... - 15.61” - 4.14lbs - overall dimensions 14.06 x 9.27 x 0.66in or about 86in^3 Apple 16” MBP: via Apple.com - 16” screen - 4.3lbs - overall dimensions 14.09in x 9.68in x 0.64in or about 87.3in^3 —…

I've got a stacked 64Gb Dell XPS 5550 and an ass end M1 MacBook Air. I'd rather use the Air any day. But I'd rather just use my desktop M1 Mini than both. It has a 27" screen and a proper keyboard (Durgod K320) attached to it. All my shit is in AWS now.

> I've got a stacked 64Gb Dell XPS 5550 and an ass end M1 MacBook Air. I'd rather use the Air any day.

I’ve got a 12 core 3.3ghz Xeon Mac Pro w/ 256gb RAM and a max spec 13” M1 MacBook Pro. Like you, I’d rather use the M1 unless the workload really needs the extra CPU cores/memory/Higher end GPU. Single thread, the M1 is faster. Even up to 8 cores, the M1 keeps pace with the much higher TDP CPUs.

Also, re: 64gb being an option on the X5550, it doesn’t surprise me doing a search for the spec sheet for a 15” Dell XPS didn’t include information that there was a X5500 and a higher spec X5550. Why make it easily discoverable for customers like Apple does?

Re: Tech Preview of Docker Desktop for M1

#215

Post by qz2 »

jsjohnst wrote: post #214
qz2 wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've got a stacked 64Gb Dell XPS 5550 and an ass end M1 MacBook Air. I'd rather use the Air any day. But I'd rather just use my desktop M1 Mini than both. It has a 27" screen and a proper keyboard (Durgod K320) attached to it. All my shit is in AWS now.

> I've got a stacked 64Gb Dell XPS 5550 and an ass end M1 MacBook Air. I'd rather use the Air any day. I’ve got a 12 core 3.3ghz Xeon Mac Pro w/ 256gb RAM and a max spec 13” M1 MacBook Pro. Like you, I’d rather use the M1 unless the workload really needs the extra CPU cores/memory/Higher end GPU. Single thread, the M1 is faster. Even up to 8 cores, the M1 keeps pace with the much higher TDP CPUs. Also, re: 64gb being…

We didn't know Dell did them either until we couldn't get a PO signed off for a more expensive one and ended up talking to a sales guy at Dell. So yep completely agree on the discoverability thing.

Re: Tech Preview of Docker Desktop for M1

#216

Post by jsjohnst »

TheOperator wrote: post #195
jsjohnst wrote: post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The screensize/weight ratio, the screensize/body size ratio Based on HN comments, one of the most popular non-Apple laptops seems to be the Dell XPS. XPS: via https://downloads.dell.com/manuals/all-products/esuprt_lapto... - 15.61” - 4.14lbs - overall dimensions 14.06 x 9.27 x 0.66in or about 86in^3 Apple 16” MBP: via Apple.com - 16” screen - 4.3lbs - overall dimensions 14.09in x 9.68in x 0.64in or about 87.3in^3 —…

The 16" slipped my mind, that varient to me was the first "good" laptop apple released in years but they were pushing a dated 15" model not so long ago. This laptop had quite a bit of overheating issues to the point you can't even drive all the monitors it says it supports on the spec sheet off the iGPU anywhere close to comfortably. The 13" models which I'm more interested in are more dated and more behind in terms…

> This laptop had quite a bit of overheating issues to the point you can't even drive all the monitors it says it supports on the spec sheet off the iGPU anywhere close to comfortably.

Also, which laptop is this claim in reference to?

Personal experiences:

13” M1 MBP - one LG 5K display, zero heat or fan speed issues.

16” MBP - I daily drive two LG 5K monitors with no increased heat or fan speed. Prior to picking up the additional LG 5K, I used one LG 5K and two 27” Apple Thunderbolt displays.

15” MBP, with 4 TB3 ports: LG 5K and two 27” Apple TB displays all working without higher heat than w/o them connected

13” MBP, with 4 TB3 ports: same triple monitor setup, same no heat / fan speed issues.

15” rMBP (2015): used two 27” Apple Thunderbolt displays + two 34” ultrawide LG displays, no heat issues or fan issues

The only time I’ve ever seen my laptop stressed by connected monitors is when I did an experiment and connected NINE external displays (ten total screens, as laptop screen was still on) as a test to a 16” MBP to see if it could do it. If I’d had more TB monitors to test with, I think I could’ve done higher count.

Setup in that test:

TB3 port back left: LG 5K display

TB3 port front left: two 27” Apple Thunderbolt monitors daisy chained and using TB3->TB2 adapter

TB3 port back right: eGPU w/ AMD Radeon 580 card connected to two 34” LG ultrawides and two 27” Apple Cinema Display monitors (the older non-TB models)

TB3 port front right: same setup as left, two 27” Apple TB displays

Even then, it definitely wasn’t “overheating”, but processors did idle much higher and fans stayed on during idle (but not at high speed).

Re: Tech Preview of Docker Desktop for M1

#217

Post by garciasn »

totalZero wrote: post #203
ducktective wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, until the developers decide to release only for Arm targets and when you search issues for x86 build, the maintainer says "just compile it yourself"... And you look into the dockerfile manifest and see that it wants to pull the whole stack of history of computing...Then you figure maybe you don't need that shiny utility in the first place and move on... It's "64 vs 32-bit" or "Ubuntu vs Arch vs Fedora binary" a…

Apple is 15% of the personal computer market, if I'm not mistaken. Their intention to abandon x86 isn't a clarion call for the obsolescence of x86. Personal computers generally go where Windows goes. Heck, that's arguably part of why Apple left PowerPC for Intel in the first place. Apple has tremendous impact on design, form factor, and other visionary steps that the market takes. I do not deny that. Still, in terms…

They are roughly 15% of the US market and about 7% globally.

Re: Tech Preview of Docker Desktop for M1

#218

Post by coldtea »

musicale wrote: post #176
ogre_codes wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This whole territory is pretty much unknown right now. Whether we can have reasonably performant x86 containers is up in the air.

Yes, it's definitely "performant" if by "performant" you mean "exactly matching the well-established performance of qemu emulation" which means: slower than Rosetta2 with higher CPU/memory/power usage but still functionally correct for the most part. If by "performant" you mean "as fast as it used to run on x86 Mac hardware" than the answer is: No, it's emulation, and it's slower than Rosetta2.

>but still functionally correct for the most part.

Why, would any part be fuctionally incorrect under qemu?

I mean, aside for web and app development, not for writing hardware drivers...

Re: Tech Preview of Docker Desktop for M1

#219

Post by TheOperator »

jsjohnst wrote: post #213
TheOperator wrote: post #195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The 16" slipped my mind, that varient to me was the first "good" laptop apple released in years but they were pushing a dated 15" model not so long ago. This laptop had quite a bit of overheating issues to the point you can't even drive all the monitors it says it supports on the spec sheet off the iGPU anywhere close to comfortably. The 13" models which I'm more interested in are more dated and more behind in terms…

I’m not going to continue doing your laptop buyers homework for you, but I just checked the T480 spec sheet[0]: weight/screensize ratio: .25lb/in Screensize/bodysize: 86.9% So definitely not way ahead either, actually behind the first two on one of your criteria. Look, it’s obvious you have a bias against Apple, likely even a justified one. I have reasons I hate them too. But can we please not post baseless claims li…

T480 and T480s are not the same laptop. Add an s to that URL

https://psref.lenovo.com/syspool/Sys/PDF/datasheet/ThinkPad_...

Bezels are rather bad on the T series back then but weight was fantastic, xps13 was slightly better in terms of bezels and weight. The T-series having the nipple also helped you use it in tighter spaces closer to your body without sticking your elbows out which helps in tight seated spaces (which is the big reason I care about body size vs screen size), but those tall bezels were dreadful. Still I was just stunned by Apples seeming lack of competitiveness in the 13-14" space, and their 15" laptops weren't good until the 16" came out which was a fine laptop compared to the competition but the thermals really disappointed me and it felt like some of the hardware they put in it went to waste. The 16" was the first laptop since 2015 I would honestly say was arguably the best on the market of that type, before that the laptops were just crap.

>Look, it’s obvious you have a bias against Apple

I have a bias against bad products like the 2016-2019 era macbooks which were dreadful. When Apple was making good laptops before then, I was a fan. After they started making good laptops again, I was a fan. When Apple was in the dark ages, I went to the store and gave their laptops an honest shot but I just couldn't bring myself to buy such garbage even though I was a fan of MacOS. Do I have to believe Apple has made the best laptops from a hardware perspective every single year to not be bias against them with no regard to what their competition is doing? There is not a single product in their lineup I do not consider arguably the best on the market these days, I've been in rooms where I was on of two mac users in a room of 30, my god I'm SO biased against Apple because I hate heavy slow computers with defective keyboards and dubious pricing.

Re: Tech Preview of Docker Desktop for M1

#220

Post by LukeLambert »

vocram wrote: post #147
gmaster1440 wrote: post #57

I've tried one of the preview builds as part of their Developer Preview Program[1] and it's super fast when you're running an arm64 image, as opposed to an amd64 that will automatically be run via qemu (and therefore incur some overhead). By "super fast", I mean I was seeing speeds comparable to running the commands natively on the M1 mac (npm install and a heavy Gulp build). [1] - https://www.docker.com/community/ge…

Are users able to check if they are running a native arm64 container image, as opposed to an amd64 emulated one? Or that’s something you have to infer from the execution speed?

I'm not great at bash, but this little script worked for me.

    #!/usr/bin/env bash
    docker ps --format "{{.ID}} {{.Names}}" | while read line; do
      read -ra arr
Or this one-liner with worse formatting:

    docker ps --format "{{.Names}}" | xargs -tI {} docker exec {} uname -m
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