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The Ballmer Days Are Over

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Re: The Ballmer Days Are Over

#191

Post by ma2rten »

lotusleaf1987 wrote: post #187
varikin wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the OP is right, but you are misunderstanding. Jobs understands his business, but what products does Apple put out there for businesses? Microsoft has Exchange, Active Directory, .NET/C#/MVC, MSSql, plus many more products aimed at the enterprise. Apple makes consumer products and does it will. The iPhone/pad/pod, AppleTV, laptops, and desktops. They tried the server market with XServer, but that was disconti…

Windows 7 is a decade behind OS X. Why does Apple need to worry about B2B? They sell consumer products--iPads, iPhones, iPods, Macbooks--that's where they make the bulk of their revenue/profits. The idea that it's valid to criticize Apple for not having enough B2B is like complaining that Fender doesn't make flutes. It just isn't their business.

I think you should reread the comment. They do not criticize Apple at all.

Re: The Ballmer Days Are Over

#192

Post by foobarqux »

kitsune_ wrote: post #167
larrik wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you look at Microsoft's words and actions in regards to their competitors, they are clearly completely clueless. In fact, "Microsoft people" are often completely blind to everything not made by Microsoft. Reading HN you may never know, but if you've met actual .NET stack developers, or MSCE's or anyone else similar, and you'll find people who make websites and don't know what apache is. Or they'll dismiss open sou…

Thank you. I'm a .NET developer by trade. (ASP.NET MVC). Yes, I know Haskell. Yes I know python. Yes, I've used django. Yes I've programmed in PROLOG and EIFFEL. Yes I can use a shell and succesfully configured a linux server countless of times. Fuck me, totally unrelated, but I even know MATLAB. Yes, I had my hands on SOLARIS servers. Yes, I programmed a SPH solver with CUDA. Yes I know javascript, not just jQuery.…

I'll ask the obvious: Why do you use .NET?

Re: The Ballmer Days Are Over

#193

Post by brg »

blub wrote: post #169
brg wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple serves students very well. Take a look at current trends in laptop purchases by incoming students. http://itc.virginia.edu/students/inventory/compare/ If these numbers are indicative of the US as a whole, 45% of new laptop purchases are OSX. IPhone, IPod touch, and IPad are selling well outside of the premium market. From these data points I still feel Apple is the main competitor to MS.

Student trends cannot - by definition - be indicative of the US as a whole.

Being indicative means having predictive power, not being representative. It is often the case that student trends are indicative of larger trends; for instance the number of college graduates looking for employment.

As for laptops, looking at data is better than pointless statements:

http://www.google.com/trends?q=laptop

Laptop sales correlate with google search trends. The later has a bimodal distribution, with one peak in August and one in December. The former represents back to school sales, and due to its size, it is clear that student purchases of laptops are a significant factor in the market.

Re: The Ballmer Days Are Over

#194

Post by parfe »

amorphid wrote: post #188
parfe wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That confuses me. When the company buys back shares they don't just disappear, do they? With 1 million outstanding shares owning 50% of a company and the company buys back 500k, then there are 500k shares owning 25%. Why would those shares' value increase?

Yes, the shares disappear. A company cannot own itself, at least not directly. If a company had 3 million shares outstanding, then buys back 1 million shares, there would then be 2 million shares.

So do the remaining shares own more of the company?

Re: The Ballmer Days Are Over

#195

Post by thewisedude »

I get the impression that Ballmer does not have great vision. I dont have evidence to support it. That said, I dont buy many of the arguments made in this article. He is comparing Skype to Facetime. I dont think buying an app for 8 billion dollars make sense. I am sure there is more to skype deal than just the GUI app. The deal may have brought rights for usage of certain IP networks or something along those lines.

I am not sure how MSFT is planning to leverage this deal with plans of pushing into the mobile market. I am sure there is something in the works there.

Stock Price comparison: There were many Billion dollar companies that are doing fine without a staggering growth seen in Apple or Google, that does not mean that CEO's are doing a bad job.

Re: The Ballmer Days Are Over

#196

Post by jpadkins »

lotusleaf1987 wrote: post #185
boyakasha wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think he means _selling_ to businesses (i.e. B2B as opposed to B2C), not _running_ a business. Also, your nasty tone doesn't help.

It's a pretty ignorant criticism to complain that Apple doesn't do enough B2B, that's like complaining General Electric doesn't do enough pharmaceuticals--it's not even in Apple's business scope to worry about B2B, they make consumer and prosumer products. I treat idiots with the respect they deserve.

Umm GE sells pharmaceuticals and has a large healthcare division.

Apple tried and failed to enter B2B, recently.

Re: The Ballmer Days Are Over

#197

Post by lotusleaf1987 »

jpadkins wrote: post #196
lotusleaf1987 wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a pretty ignorant criticism to complain that Apple doesn't do enough B2B, that's like complaining General Electric doesn't do enough pharmaceuticals--it's not even in Apple's business scope to worry about B2B, they make consumer and prosumer products. I treat idiots with the respect they deserve.

Umm GE sells pharmaceuticals and has a large healthcare division. Apple tried and failed to enter B2B, recently.

You get my point thought regardless of the example, Oracle doesn't make phones, and Samsung doesn't make game consoles.

Here is a quote from Jobs: People think focus means saying yes to the thing you’ve got to focus on. But that’s not what it means at all. It means saying no to the hundred other good ideas that there are. You have to pick carefully.

And can you give an example and cite how Apple tried and failed to enter B2B?

Re: The Ballmer Days Are Over

#198

Post by krschultz »

bad_user wrote: post #131
varikin wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the OP is right, but you are misunderstanding. Jobs understands his business, but what products does Apple put out there for businesses? Microsoft has Exchange, Active Directory, .NET/C#/MVC, MSSql, plus many more products aimed at the enterprise. Apple makes consumer products and does it will. The iPhone/pad/pod, AppleTV, laptops, and desktops. They tried the server market with XServer, but that was disconti…

what products does Apple put out there for businesses That's the beauty of it - they don't have to target businesses, because businesses buy their shit anyway. doesn't really compete against .NET Apple doesn't have to compete against .NET - Microsoft shot itself in the foot years ago by not building a Unix and by not taking advantage of the open-source ecosystem. You may say what you want about .NET, but go to any so…

A huge percentage of crud business apps are .NET. That might not seem important (the 'boring' part of software development), but that just hooks a huge amount of business to the whole Windows platform.

Re: The Ballmer Days Are Over

#199

Post by varikin »

lotusleaf1987 wrote: post #187
varikin wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the OP is right, but you are misunderstanding. Jobs understands his business, but what products does Apple put out there for businesses? Microsoft has Exchange, Active Directory, .NET/C#/MVC, MSSql, plus many more products aimed at the enterprise. Apple makes consumer products and does it will. The iPhone/pad/pod, AppleTV, laptops, and desktops. They tried the server market with XServer, but that was disconti…

Windows 7 is a decade behind OS X. Why does Apple need to worry about B2B? They sell consumer products--iPads, iPhones, iPods, Macbooks--that's where they make the bulk of their revenue/profits. The idea that it's valid to criticize Apple for not having enough B2B is like complaining that Fender doesn't make flutes. It just isn't their business.

I wasn't criticizing Apple. I think it is the opposite. Apple is great at consumer products, while MS fumbled recently with consumer products, but MS has had success with B2B.

Re: The Ballmer Days Are Over

#200

Post by varikin »

bad_user wrote: post #131
varikin wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the OP is right, but you are misunderstanding. Jobs understands his business, but what products does Apple put out there for businesses? Microsoft has Exchange, Active Directory, .NET/C#/MVC, MSSql, plus many more products aimed at the enterprise. Apple makes consumer products and does it will. The iPhone/pad/pod, AppleTV, laptops, and desktops. They tried the server market with XServer, but that was disconti…

what products does Apple put out there for businesses That's the beauty of it - they don't have to target businesses, because businesses buy their shit anyway. doesn't really compete against .NET Apple doesn't have to compete against .NET - Microsoft shot itself in the foot years ago by not building a Unix and by not taking advantage of the open-source ecosystem. You may say what you want about .NET, but go to any so…

I don't care for MS, but I do grudgingly respect .NET from everything I have seen. And while it is hip to use Apple and run RoR, Django, Erlang, or any other next big language and stack, .NET is huge in the corporate world where the stack is decided based upon politics and who plays golf with who instead of by the developers.

And yes, Apple doesn't compete with .NET, that was sort of my point. They different products to address different needs—iOS/desktop apps vs web based CRUD apps for insurance companies (example corporate industry).

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