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Child-safety laws may reduce the birth rate

economist.com

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Re: Child-safety laws may reduce the birth rate

#331

Post by asiachick »

ynniv wrote: post #262
irateswami wrote: post #15

This is an actual conversation I had to have with my wife, having a third kid definitely requires a larger vehicle as the vast majority of cars today simply don't work for a family of five. Child car seats are too wide and the backseats of most cars are too narrow, and the price jump to a vehicle that would be able to handle three child car seats at once is enormous. Throw in some dogs, a couple pieces of luggage tha…

I replaced my 3-series BMW with a Honda Odyssey, and I've spent two years singing its praises. Part of the problem is that we have created a culture that uses cars as a form of self expression, and many early parents aren't ready to "be" a minivan. But the minivan is what you actually want as a parent: room for six people of any size, or four people and at least twice as much cargo as an SUV, with safe, remote contro…

I find it interesting just how much cars are part of certain cultures. Living in Tokyo of my hundreds of acquaintances I think I know 3 that own a car. Family or no. I know that's not possible in many places though I kind of wish it was more common.

Re: Child-safety laws may reduce the birth rate

#332

Post by arcticbull »

sudo_bang_bang wrote: post #316
arcticbull wrote: post #27

In general there's a strong negative correlation between development of a society and birth rate. Also income. It's extremely powerful, and applies literally all over the world. I suspect that in America over the last few decades, development continued. Child-safety laws came along for the ride. [1, 2] Income is a less compelling argument in America as wages have remained totally constant on an inflation adjusted bas…

Important to note that real income per capita isn’t actually flat, only household income but that’s likely because of household size changes. See here for disposable real income: https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/A229RX0

Great call-out thank you!

Re: Child-safety laws may reduce the birth rate

#333

Post by WalterBright »

iaw wrote: post #289
zetazzed wrote: post #283

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When my wife and I were discussing whether to have a third kid, the "we can justify a minivan now" argument was a big push in favor! If you think it's uncool, just remember -- if you buy a sports car, there is always someone out there with a cooler sports car. But you can buy THE BEST minivan in the world for ~$40k. Minivans also tend to go heavy on tech and comfort features relative to their price point. Yes, they s…

My problem with minivans (as opposed to good sports cars) is that they drive like crap. I have never encountered (or heard of) a van that drove well with one exception [1] [1] I remember reading about a volkswagen bus that had been modified heavily with Porsche components to the point it could drive and accelerate better than any van had a right to.

My parents had a '68 VW bus. Sorry, it was a death trap. I have no idea how we survived several trips across the US in it.

1. no seat belts in the back, no headrests

2. poor brakes (especially if you were seduced by the size of the cargo area and loaded a bunch of weight in it)

3. inadequate power (could barely to 65)

4. would tip over if turned too sharply

5. don't even think about hitting anything head on, just a bit of sheetmetal there

6. highly susceptible to cross-winds

On the plus side, it was inexpensive to maintain and ran for decades. I finally sold it for my dad, and he asked me if I was nostalgic for it. I said no, I was just happy we never had an accident in it. My dad gets the credit for that, he was an unusually careful driver. Never hit anything in 70 years of driving.

I know times have changed, and what was acceptable in the 60's wrt car safety has changed a lot, but still...

Re: Child-safety laws may reduce the birth rate

#334

Post by m_eiman »

lsllc wrote: post #216
irateswami wrote: post #15

This is an actual conversation I had to have with my wife, having a third kid definitely requires a larger vehicle as the vast majority of cars today simply don't work for a family of five. Child car seats are too wide and the backseats of most cars are too narrow, and the price jump to a vehicle that would be able to handle three child car seats at once is enormous. Throw in some dogs, a couple pieces of luggage tha…

Alright, don't leave me hanging -- which Volkswagen?

The Sharan fits seven persons (possibly seven adults, but the two back seats could be a bit tight for some), and is wide enough in the middle row for three kids in kids' seats.

It still looks and handles like a normal car rather than a bus.

Re: Child-safety laws may reduce the birth rate

#335

Post by KozmoNau7 »

iaw wrote: post #289
zetazzed wrote: post #283

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When my wife and I were discussing whether to have a third kid, the "we can justify a minivan now" argument was a big push in favor! If you think it's uncool, just remember -- if you buy a sports car, there is always someone out there with a cooler sports car. But you can buy THE BEST minivan in the world for ~$40k. Minivans also tend to go heavy on tech and comfort features relative to their price point. Yes, they s…

My problem with minivans (as opposed to good sports cars) is that they drive like crap. I have never encountered (or heard of) a van that drove well with one exception [1] [1] I remember reading about a volkswagen bus that had been modified heavily with Porsche components to the point it could drive and accelerate better than any van had a right to.

Minivans drive perfectly well, beyond the limits of what is responsible on a public road. The point of a minivan is everyday practicality, not lap times.

If you want to drive something that drives like a sports car, get a sports car for the weekends.

Re: Child-safety laws may reduce the birth rate

#336

Post by 3np »

asiachick wrote: post #331
ynniv wrote: post #262

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I replaced my 3-series BMW with a Honda Odyssey, and I've spent two years singing its praises. Part of the problem is that we have created a culture that uses cars as a form of self expression, and many early parents aren't ready to "be" a minivan. But the minivan is what you actually want as a parent: room for six people of any size, or four people and at least twice as much cargo as an SUV, with safe, remote contro…

I find it interesting just how much cars are part of certain cultures. Living in Tokyo of my hundreds of acquaintances I think I know 3 that own a car. Family or no. I know that's not possible in many places though I kind of wish it was more common.

Once you get out of the bigger cities, having a car is basically expected in the rest of Japan - layout and planning of smaller cities reflect this a lot. Car ownership can be really cheap as well - parking space is a major cost factor in Tokyo.

Not meaning to counter your point, just pointing out that there are some significant culture differences between metropolises/smaller cities/countryside within the same country

Re: Child-safety laws may reduce the birth rate

#337

Post by globular-toast »

testfoobar wrote: post #33

The reality for a lot of families is that having children is frighteningly expensive. The twin costs of childcare and a reduction in parental work hours (often mom's) and as a result future career and income advancement potential can be substantial drag on a family's income. Each additional child just prolongs this drag. Multigenerational households where grandparents provide childcare are one solution around this pr…

Yeah, that's mostly due to feminism as some of the already buried comments here point out. You only have to look back a short time and there was no such thing as "child care". The children were cared for by their mothers. Imagine that! A mother having time to raise her own children! Now they are "free" to be drones in the corporate machine instead and can't get out because the family needs that money. The children now get the privilege of being raised in a child care farm instead of by loving family. Oh, and nobody has time to cook or clean any more so it's ready meals and takeaways every night. What progress...

Re: Child-safety laws may reduce the birth rate

#338

Post by lagerstedt »

irateswami wrote: post #15

This is an actual conversation I had to have with my wife, having a third kid definitely requires a larger vehicle as the vast majority of cars today simply don't work for a family of five. Child car seats are too wide and the backseats of most cars are too narrow, and the price jump to a vehicle that would be able to handle three child car seats at once is enormous. Throw in some dogs, a couple pieces of luggage tha…

Why on earth would you buy a sedan if you need to haul stuff/dogs around?

Re: Child-safety laws may reduce the birth rate

#339

Post by bobthepanda »

denosawr wrote: post #274
bobthepanda wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think anyone argues that in specific incidents helmets are safer. The question is whether or not the second order effects of compulsory helmets outweigh the benefits for the individual, namely; - helmets make biking more inconvenient and compulsory usage of helmets suppresses cycling rates. In addition to the argument that is is a net negative because people get less exercise, there is also a second argument;…

I live in Australia, and I’ve always been taught to wear a helmet. It’s just a thing everybody knows now. Every bike you buy even has a sticker saying “use your head, wear a helmet.” I think many of the side effects you mention arise from systemic biases when people aren’t used to helmet wear. Drivers wouldn’t overestimate safety when all cyclists wear helmets; this would take time to set in, but with compulsory helm…

Here's an article showing the literature covering Western Australia's helmet law, which pretty much universally shows a total decrease in cycling rates, and a general increase in hospital admissions rate for the cyclists left on the road.

http://www.cycle-helmets.com/results.html

People may not outwardly complain about it, but they may not even think of it as a viable trip alternative anymore.

Re: Child-safety laws may reduce the birth rate

#340

Post by gwd »

irrational wrote: post #293
ynniv wrote: post #262

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I replaced my 3-series BMW with a Honda Odyssey, and I've spent two years singing its praises. Part of the problem is that we have created a culture that uses cars as a form of self expression, and many early parents aren't ready to "be" a minivan. But the minivan is what you actually want as a parent: room for six people of any size, or four people and at least twice as much cargo as an SUV, with safe, remote contro…

Twice as much cargo as an SUV? We have both a minivan (Toyota sienna) and an SUV (Chevy Suburban) and the SUV easily has quadruple the cargo space as the minivan.

Can you move an upright piano in it?

The thing that finally turned me off to SUVs was when I managed to find an upright piano for $200, and none of my friends with SUVs could help me move it -- I ended up borrowing my mom's minivan (with the seats taken out). At that point I decided that sure, an SUV looks more "manly", but I'd rather have a vehicle that can actually get the job done.

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