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Firefox Was Always Enough

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Re: Firefox Was Always Enough

#541

Post by cozzyd »

thaumasiotes wrote: post #510
heavyset_go wrote: post #495

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel the same way about webOS: it was better and nicer than Android or iOS, and we had to wait half of a decade before Android and iOS adopted some of the features it shipped with in 2009. As of 2019, however, 52.4% of the mobile OS market belongs to iOS, and 47% to Android[1]. Neither of our favorite mobile phone OSes have succeeded in comparison. [1] https://www.statista.com/statistics/266572/market-share-held...

> As of 2019, however, 52.4% of the mobile OS market belongs to iOS, and 47% to Android. This doesn't pass the sniff test, unless you're doing something weird like measuring the mobile OS market in dollars spent on phones. > Neither of our favorite mobile phone OSes have succeeded in comparison. To be clear, I have no experience of Windows Phone. I'm just bemused that 100% of comments about what it was like are so gl…

The source is for the US, where it's at least plausible.

Re: Firefox Was Always Enough

#542

Post by fabrice_d »

mortenjorck wrote: post #483
fabrice_d wrote: post #447

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Commercially, it totally did. Without Whatsapp we could not sell enough devices, but without enough volume Whatsapp was not interested to build an official app. Chicken, meet egg!

If it was literally make-or-break for the entire platform, especially in the markets it was targeting, I’m surprised Mozilla never volunteered to subsidize or build a WhatsApp port.

Why do you assume didn't try anything?

We actually:

- have been friendly to 3rd party clients developers, like Loquim (https://loqui.im/). Once WA turned on e2e encryption, the situation for 3rd party clients changed from "difficult but fun" to "mostly impossible".

- wrote a JVM in JS to run the S40 version of WA (https://github.com/mozilla/pluotsorbet).

- partnered with a company specialized in bringing android apps to other OSes (they had Windows Phone support for instance).

Re: Firefox Was Always Enough

#543

Post by zhte415 »

wussboy wrote: post #387
giancarlostoro wrote: post #370

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Mozilla doesn't have a real sustainable business model right now. This is the meat of my problem with Firefox as it stands. I've not stopped using Firefox since the mid 2000's but come on, you need something more than just checks from Google. Charge me for a commercial version of FireFox that includes a VPN subscription and funds its development. Just do it ten years ago. Honestly, if they're not going to embrace R…

This most common thing I write on HN is that I can’t believe I can’t pay to use Firefox. “How will we ever earn money here at Mozilla? All we have is this world class web browser that provides massive value to millions of people, but we refuse to directly monetize. Oh whatever will we do?”

As a world-class browser, Opera did that route. Opera died. I believe that might be in thinking but far from an insider in either, simply a happy Firefox user since 0.7 and Netscape before that.

Re: Firefox Was Always Enough

#544

Post by methodsignature »

emn13 wrote: post #347
naniwaduni wrote: post #315

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That "what their techy friend recommended them" does a hell of a lot of work. It pretty much drove Firefox up to 30% market share once, remember.

A counter point to that is that the impact of the tech sector on recommendations like that is ever shrinking - tech is normalized; everyday stuff where people feel comfortable making their own choices (and where the number of people that haven't made those choices pretty solidly yet is ever shrinking). The market is more mature, in essence.

Yap. People ask the internet now maybe more than their techie friends, and the marketers are probably as likely to be the ones amswering.

Re: Firefox Was Always Enough

#545

Post by methodsignature »

TheAdamAndChe wrote: post #349
naniwaduni wrote: post #315

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That "what their techy friend recommended them" does a hell of a lot of work. It pretty much drove Firefox up to 30% market share once, remember.

I think it's why Firefox's market share is declining too. I don't recommend firefox for non-technical users anymore because of its relative complexity and incompatibility with the modern web when compared to Chrome.

I switched my wife to FF from chrome and completely uninstalle chrome. She hates the inconvenience of any minor glitches or peculiarities - I hear a lot about it when she doesn't like something. I almost forgot she was switched over b.c. I didn't hear a thing about it from her.

Re: Firefox Was Always Enough

#546

Post by methodsignature »

narag wrote: post #291
bobmichael wrote: post #282

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you read GP carefully, they're not making the argument that users will choose Firefox because it's written in Rust, but rather that the improved security and performance brought about by Rust would be what attracts and retains users.

Are users very worried about browser security nowadays? It was a major concern a few years back, but I seldom hear that kind of complaint. I do hear about surveilance and privacy, but not so much about catastrophic failures.

Sometimes you just need the differentiator in your feature set. Then you let your marketing team go to work.

Re: Firefox Was Always Enough

#547

Post by lolinder »

thaumasiotes wrote: post #534
skinkestek wrote: post #533

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What was the failure? This isn't a retrospective that makes any sense. No YouTube, no Snapchat etc. With YouTube Google used their position to keep it that way. It also wouldn't surprise me if someone told certain app developers that "that's a nice app you have there, it would be shame if there was a bug in the Play store that made it hard ro find". When it comes to App Store I have heard it is pretty well establis…

> No YouTube, no Snapchat etc. > With YouTube Google used their position to keep it that way. YouTube is available to anyone with a web browser, such as people using a smartphone.

Yes, but YouTube on mobile (in Firefox at least) is crippled in comparison to the mobile app or the desktop site, probably intentionally.

Re: Firefox Was Always Enough

#548

Post by zomglings »

yummypaint wrote: post #19
etempleton wrote: post #2

I will make the same comment I made on another post regarding Firefox and Mozilla: a few tips from from no one: 1. Rewrite the Mozilla mission statement. I read that and have no idea what your organization does. Mission statements seem like corporate naval gazing, but if it is honest and well written it keeps everyone focused on what you are working towards. 2. Refocus on Firefox R&D and core technologies - Firefox n…

Firefox is already the best browser and has been for a long time. The problem is that most laypeople don't even know it exists. Combined with dark patterns used by microsoft and google to steer users toward their own browsers, it's an uphill battle. I'll stick firefox and appropriate extensions on a friends computer so they can watch youtube etc completely ad free, which is a major tangible QOL improvement, but then…

Using Firefox every day, somewhat on principle. The experience is nowhere as good as Chrome.

It takes FOREVER after starting Firefox to load saved tabs -- like 30 seconds to 1 minute of delay before the first tab starts to load.

Recently, it also has been updating quietly in the background and FORCING me to restart Firefox to view any content. I'm sure there's a setting I can change somewhere that makes it require manual updates. That should be the default.

Re: Firefox Was Always Enough

#549

Post by dxdm »

hombre_fatal wrote: post #493
wussboy wrote: post #390

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Huge businesses are built on the freemium model. Firefox would only gain from embracing the same.

Though they have been trying to do that, freemium meaning the core product is free and they try to make ancillary features compelling enough for you to pay for them. Examples: Pocket and their new VPN service.

> Examples: Pocket

Wait, pocket is a Mozilla thing? When that first popped up in Firefox, I just assumed they partnered with some business and sold out a little chunk of my data.

Now that I'm reading up on it, I see that it's more complicated. Apparently, Mozilla Corp _bought_ Pocket, which used to be Read It Later. Which I had been using at some point before. Wow. Some better communication around all that from Mozilla's side, and I might have given Pocket a chance when they rolled it out.

Re: Firefox Was Always Enough

#550

Post by twblalock »

wgjordan wrote: post #283
secondcoming wrote: post #278

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Out of all internet users out there, how many would choose Firefox just because it's written in rust? An insignificant fraction. That said. I've been using Firefox as my main browser for years. I only use chrome when a website needs it or works better in it.

If you stipulate that 'Rust is going to yield a lot of result when it comes to security, memory safety and maintainability' (see parent comment), then a great many Internet users out there would choose Firefox if as a result of being written in Rust it's more secure, memory-safe (less crashing/bugs) and maintainable (more and better features).

Changing languages is not a magic bullet. Browsers written in C++ can be just as safe and maintainable -- especially with the resources of large companies behind them, with tons of engineers and testers etc.
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