I Regret Quitting Astrophysics • Hacker News Board

Re: I Regret Quitting Astrophysics

#111

Post by borroka » Thu, Dec 17, 2020, 4:25 AM UTC

mellosouls wrote: post #73

magneticnorth wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As another STEM PhD data scientist who is thinking of pivoting back into academia at some point, do you have specific examples of the kinds of jobs that are available that would welcome and benefit from industry DS experience? Perhaps teaching DS or computer science?

I think that any reputable academic department would welcome industry experience depending on the context; I can't give specific examples without searching (e.g. on portals like academicpositions.com). And certainly teaching with your background sounds like a strong possibility if it appeals. More generally, I would say that the key would be to target roles and teams that cross the boundary between pure research and…

There are a few fields in which there is movement academia to industry to academia, that is there is a permeable academia-industry barrier. Say, computer science and adjacent fields, business/economics if we include business schools, medicine, but hospitals can also be research centers.

For the vast majority of other fields, if you move to industry, they (academia) are not interested in you anymore. Yes, there are some exceptions like that flight attendant who survived after falling out of the plane at I don't know how many feet of altitude, but in my research field (one the life sciences) I have yet to see someone moving back to academia after having left to go work in industry. First, they (academia) do not want you anymore, you are simply expired. Second, as one faculty when I was a postdoc said: we would like to ask researchers who moved into the private sector how life is out there, but they never came back to tell us. And, I must add, it is easy to guess why: as soon as one gets some distance from the academic world (and I guess, from most worlds, but let's stay focused on academia), they see that when researchers are not making ground-breaking work, they are just doing some work, not better or worse than many others that requires passion and dedication, pay little, and leave you like snow in the summer sun when you are not needed anymore.

Recently, someone in academia told me: when you are tired of industry, you can try to get back into academia, maybe as a professor of practice. Like, for 1/3 of the money and 3 times the annoyances? I would much prefer to open a pizzeria and I don't eat pizza.

Re: I Regret Quitting Astrophysics

#112

Post by rsfern » Thu, Dec 17, 2020, 4:30 AM UTC

bumby wrote: post #104

willis936 wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

$100k is close to twice what you make in academia unless you’re a professor.

You’re pretty close, onet says median wage is about $65k. Would you say most of the people there are hustling for the chance at a professorship, early career, or just love the environment/work?

Depends on the population you’re asking about.

The postdocs are generally there to pursue a faculty position or to broaden their skillset and springboard to the next thing. 65k seems high for a postdoc in most fields though. My academic postdoc salary a few years ago was 50k, and that was considered generous.

Staff, research scientists, lab techs, and other non-postdoc, non-faculty technical roles in academia are not generally in the career path to a tenured position, so I’d guess environment/work would be primary motivators.

Re: I Regret Quitting Astrophysics

#113

Post by borroka » Thu, Dec 17, 2020, 4:32 AM UTC

bumby wrote: post #57

This reminds me of a semi-recent Freakanomics podcast where Steve Levitt voiced his disillusionment with academia where you could spend years working on a paper that only gets read by a handful of people. It was contrasted to business applications that can help hundreds or thousands of people. In his words, he had “gotten tired of academic research and decided I should try to do something useful for a while.” Maybe g…

I went to work in tech from academia, but I wanted to publish a paper I had started working on during my last months as a researchers. I worked on it during weekends, sometimes snatching hours from work. I sent it out for peer-review and it was published. One year after publication, it collected the astounding number of exactly zero citations.

Re: I Regret Quitting Astrophysics

#114

Post by fnord77 » Thu, Dec 17, 2020, 4:47 AM UTC

supernova87a wrote: post #60

Do I miss quitting astrophysics? Hmm, which do I miss? -- The once-per-year job cycle where if you don't find something you like, you have to wait another year to land your next soft money position? -- The lack of perception of fairness or clear criteria for how the top fellowships are awarded? -- The feeling that you're in an endless apprenticeship model like a pyramid scheme where only by the top people leaving do…

capitalism doesn't have much use for professions that don't make someone rich

Re: I Regret Quitting Astrophysics

#115

Post by borroka » Thu, Dec 17, 2020, 4:49 AM UTC

jkingsbery wrote: post #24

> I think I have gained skills and experience that can be very valuable to the astronomical community, but I know that that is simply not what candidates for academic positions are selected on. t seems pretty damning to suggest that a community selects its members based on something other than having "skills and experience that can be very valuable" to that same community. Is that really true? Hopefully we're putting…

Just to make an example, politicians are certainly not the best political/organizational minds that one can find in this world. When the results of an activity are nuanced, that is the results are not clearly measurable (revenue, profit, distance, weight, etc. are clear, measurable metrics), the skills of the members of the community are unlikely to be the best one can find. Since most of the research work is inevitably useless, there are reasons for hiring that are other than skills and experience and quality.

Re: I Regret Quitting Astrophysics

#116

Post by Ar-Curunir » Thu, Dec 17, 2020, 4:50 AM UTC

borroka wrote: post #113

bumby wrote: post #57

This reminds me of a semi-recent Freakanomics podcast where Steve Levitt voiced his disillusionment with academia where you could spend years working on a paper that only gets read by a handful of people. It was contrasted to business applications that can help hundreds or thousands of people. In his words, he had “gotten tired of academic research and decided I should try to do something useful for a while.” Maybe g…

I went to work in tech from academia, but I wanted to publish a paper I had started working on during my last months as a researchers. I worked on it during weekends, sometimes snatching hours from work. I sent it out for peer-review and it was published. One year after publication, it collected the astounding number of exactly zero citations.

usually you need to give talks about and more generally publicize your work; if it's interesting people will pick it up, but they need to be aware of it first. Number of citations also depend on the publication venue: better venue => more visibility => more citations.

Re: I Regret Quitting Astrophysics

#117

Post by Ar-Curunir » Thu, Dec 17, 2020, 4:52 AM UTC

minimalist wrote: post #76

I don't like posting acrimonious comments, but it is hard to find any sympathy for the author. The reasons are similar to the contempt held for people who decry the manipulation of public opinion, while our high-aptitude graduates decide to work for advertisement companies in the Bay Area in chase of the Almighty Dollar. It is sexy and high status, until more people consider the utility (or disutility) that these peo…

> riches and glory

I think most would settle for living wages and reasonable career progression prospects.

Re: I Regret Quitting Astrophysics

#118

Post by godelski » Thu, Dec 17, 2020, 4:59 AM UTC

fnord77 wrote: post #114

supernova87a wrote: post #60

Do I miss quitting astrophysics? Hmm, which do I miss? -- The once-per-year job cycle where if you don't find something you like, you have to wait another year to land your next soft money position? -- The lack of perception of fairness or clear criteria for how the top fellowships are awarded? -- The feeling that you're in an endless apprenticeship model like a pyramid scheme where only by the top people leaving do…

capitalism doesn't have much use for professions that don't make someone rich

Research has made a lot of people rich and let average people have luxuries of royalty and royalty have what was unimaginable. The problem is the roi takes awhile and people would rather have their marshmallows now than more later. "Capitalism sucks" is just a nothing statement that is politically charged and doesn't approach the nuance of conversation we come to HN for nor is it helpful in finding a real solution to modern problems. It is only social signaling, which is actively discouraged here.

Re: I Regret Quitting Astrophysics

#119

Post by willis936 » Thu, Dec 17, 2020, 5:06 AM UTC

bumby wrote: post #104

willis936 wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

$100k is close to twice what you make in academia unless you’re a professor.

You’re pretty close, onet says median wage is about $65k. Would you say most of the people there are hustling for the chance at a professorship, early career, or just love the environment/work?

That’s why I said “close to”.

I work in a group that has about 30-50 students, 2-3 professors, 3 scientists, 2 postdocs, and 5 techs/engineers (depending on how you draw the lines). Professors make $200k. Scientists make $80k. Techs make $60k. Every single person is highly competent and could easily fetch a higher wage for their skillset. Nobody’s here because they think it’s a path to a cushy life. Working among exclusively smart people, having good conversations, not being in a nasty corporate framework, and doing work with purpose are all top reasons to stay in academia. The list of reasons not to is long (and easy to come by).

Re: I Regret Quitting Astrophysics

#120

Post by ramraj07 » Thu, Dec 17, 2020, 5:12 AM UTC

owenversteeg wrote: post #106

ramraj07 wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There will always be regrets, but at least you'll sleep better and rub your tears with Benjamins if you leave academia and regret that :) Academia will always look like the grass is greener "I can do whatever I want" type. But we shouldn't forget actually you can't, you can only do what others think you're good at, and what the grant review panels think you can feasibly do. My plan is to just use the extra money from…

Just out of curiosity, how much is a fancy deltavision microscope? I very briefly Googled to check and didn't see anything on eBay or other sites. And why not rent time on one? Apparently the University of Arizona (and a number of other universities) rent time on theirs for $25/hr ( https://microscopy.arizona.edu/equipment/deltavision-rt-deco... )

I have researched it and it used to be 100-200k range. It's also possible they don't sell them anymore. Depends on the stage, camera and enclosure. Might have changed though. However you can build your own decent non confocal microscope for that price range with individual parts.

You can rent time if you just need it for a bit here and there, or if the economics make sense that way for sure. But then, I'm saying I can also buy or build my own and still do it with just regular tech salaries on the side!