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Show HN: An anti-book recommendation tool, to help you escape your echo chamber

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Re: Show HN: An anti-book recommendation tool, to help you escape your echo chamber

#261

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Removing apex predators and using human hunters instead has no side effects that are harmful to humans. Thats not true, apex predators perform a valuable service by keeping the prey populations in check. Without them, humans would have to go hunt which is additional labor. Also its clear that humans wouldn't be able to hunt the same populations in the same amounts in the same way, which would have effects on the pr…

> You're pursuing this pet idea of yours to the exclusion of the facts and values of the people who address these ideas regularly. I'm pursuing this idea because it has wide-ranging applications. It explains why otherwise "rational" intelligent westerners make no sense a lot of the time. It is very easily explained if I just refer to the Bible. > apex predators perform a valuable service by keeping the prey populatio…

> It explains why otherwise "rational" intelligent westerners make no sense a lot of the time. It is very easily explained if I just refer to the Bible.

That assumes they aren't making sense and that it needs to be explained. That hasn't been demonstrated.

> Even that is not true. A apex-predator-less ecosystem can function just as well, albeit differently. Look up bottom-up trophic cascade.

The existence of other ways of controlling population doesn't mean that those other ways are the only way. Not all food chains are controlled by bottom-up trophic cascade. some are controlled by apex predators and removing apex predators changes the ecosystem, sometimes in ways that result in collapse.

> Not necessarily. Bottom-up trophic cascade takes care of that.

You're shifting your explanation. Earlier you said that humans could replace apex predators. When I pointed out the problems with that, now you say it can be controlled with bottom up trophic cascade. Is it possible you just don't understand this issue as well as you think?

> However, hunting will be more available, reducing reliance on industrial food farming.

Not if humans aren't able to replace the apex predators functionally. Not if the volume of food produced is different. Industrial food production is less subject to seasonal variations. Have you considered that?

> There is no need to copy a particular behavior. The species in the environment can epigenetically change to adapt to various predation patterns or lack thereof.

Thats basically nonsensical and doesn't respond to my point. Humans wouldn't replace the apex predator therefore the ecosystem would change.

> In the real world, humans co-evolved with very specific eco-systems and have nothing to do with most of the rest of it.

In the real world, the ecosystems are interdependent on other ecosystems and no barriers can be drawn except by choice.

> That's a huge leap of faith.

Not at all.

> They would happily get rid of them if they had the means.

Of course they would, animals have no concept of biodiversity. That doesn't impact on the well-established thesis that biodiversity is healthy and ecosystems with fewer species are more vulnerable to disease and catastrophe.

> Biodiversity of what? Bacteria and viruses? Or mammals? If we didn't have pangolins, some of which are endangered btw, we'd probably not have COVID-19.

Biodiversity of everything. The pangolin theory is interesting but its equally likely that if humans hadn't been destroying species at an astonishing rate over the last 50 years we'd likely also not have COVID-19.

Re: Show HN: An anti-book recommendation tool, to help you escape your echo chamber

#262

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh of course, wasn't saying that at all. It's just that I have noticed an uptick in using this kind of phrasing when trying to dismiss other positions on things as a version of the "thought terminating cliche". Not trying to say there are no delusion belief systems. That said, the bar should be very high for calling other peoples beliefs as such. I disagree with lots of people on lots of things, but one of the things…

> and more importantly, how they got there That's the most important part, isn't it? Beliefs of humans are path-dependent. Nobody can perfectly rationally re-evaluate all evidence they've encountered and compute a belief to hold. We always start with a belief, and adjust it over time. Some more eagerly than others, some more correctly than others, but it's always an additive shift. Integration of evidence, if you lik…

> Beliefs of humans are path-dependent.

Thats such simple yet profound statement to me. Thank you for the response, it has definitely given me something to ponder. Ugg. Now I'm imagine companies/govs doing path dependent profiling of people for their minority report-esque systems.

Re: Show HN: An anti-book recommendation tool, to help you escape your echo chamber

#263

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You're pursuing this pet idea of yours to the exclusion of the facts and values of the people who address these ideas regularly. I'm pursuing this idea because it has wide-ranging applications. It explains why otherwise "rational" intelligent westerners make no sense a lot of the time. It is very easily explained if I just refer to the Bible. > apex predators perform a valuable service by keeping the prey populatio…

> It explains why otherwise "rational" intelligent westerners make no sense a lot of the time. It is very easily explained if I just refer to the Bible. That assumes they aren't making sense and that it needs to be explained. That hasn't been demonstrated. > Even that is not true. A apex-predator-less ecosystem can function just as well, albeit differently. Look up bottom-up trophic cascade. The existence of other wa…

>That hasn't been demonstrated.

Oh, it has been demonstrated to me over and over again. Unfortunately, you may be too much in it to see it. I am in the position to observe from the outside.

>The existence of other ways of controlling population doesn't mean that those other ways are the only way.

Read this part of your comment again, but slowly.

>Not all food chains are controlled by bottom-up trophic cascade.

And where did I imply that it is?

>some are controlled by apex predators and removing apex predators changes the ecosystem, sometimes in ways that result in collapse.

Not really. The very same ecosystem can adapt to changes in predator population or extermination of predator population altogether.

>You're shifting your explanation. Earlier you said that humans could replace apex predators. When I pointed out the problems with that, now you say it can be controlled with bottom up trophic cascade. Is it possible you just don't understand this issue as well as you think?

Or maybe I understand it thoroughly, much more than your limited religious beliefs allow for. The ecosystem can be regulated with or without apex predators. If we remove apex predators, it will still be regulated automatically. We can choose to hunt if we so desire, and it will work differently but it will still work and work well.

>In the real world, the ecosystems are interdependent on other ecosystems and no barriers can be drawn except by choice.

Ever heard of terrariums? Sure, ecosystems may be related because they're open systems. But they don't have to be.

>That doesn't impact on the well-established thesis

What is interesting is that all these "well established" theses only go so far as to comply with Christianity, never further.

>if humans hadn't been destroying species at an astonishing rate over the last 50 years we'd likely also not have COVID-19

I know, right? The children of Adam and Eve continue to disrupt the harmony of Gods creation, so many thousand years later. When will we learn?

Except coronaviruses have been infecting mammals almost as long as mammals have been around.

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