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We can have democracy or we can have Facebook

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Re: We can have democracy or we can have Facebook

#501

Post by raxxorrax »

deckard1 wrote: post #458
nickthemagicman wrote: post #348

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why can't we have both problems! I think you're completely right. Science is not cut and dry or black and white. Highly qualified experts disagree ALL THE TIME and the scientific industry is very competetive. Look at Copernicus or Galileo or Barry Marshall or Semmelweis. These scientists bucked all mainstream scientific beliefs even after almost roundly being ostrasized and ended up being correct in the long run. Man…

> You can tell someone who is not trained in science when they claim you should 'trust science' or 'just believe in science'. The layperson should trust science. Because the alternative is some QAnon cult bullshit. Don't confuse the scientific process with concrete scientific results. No one is out there refuting Newton or Einstein. Nuclear bombs still work as good as they did in the 1940s. Every time you use your sm…

> The layperson should trust science. Because the alternative is some QAnon cult bullshit.

This is an extremely black and white view. I think the gros of human knowledge isn't even formalized in science.

Some of that knowledge might be bullshit or false assumptions and we might use science as the tool that it is to catch our mistakes.

But a proven mistake is to delegate thinking to authority when you become an adult.

The problem with bullshitters is that they are given air. No, Alex Jones isn't the downfall of western civilization if you let him preach. And please do not feed him, he will only get fatter. Yet, we have elevated to be the largest threats of online interaction.

Re: We can have democracy or we can have Facebook

#502

Post by matz1 »

Shared404 wrote: post #498
matz1 wrote: post #497

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>978 deaths is equivalent to 1/18 of the entire year to date. The rate is increasing, and there's only one way to stop it. Its still such a low number. There is no conclusive evidence that mask will reduce the death and even if wearing mask will avoid those 978 death, it still not worth it. Don't get me wrong, reducing death is good and I will support it but not if it require forced mask/lockdown. That being said, I…

> Its still such a low number. Again, there are much more than this that should be attributed to covid, these are just the most perfectly healthy people who still died, despite medical care. > There is no conclusive evidence that mask will reduce the death Have you looked at any other countries handling of the pandemic? > and even if wearing mask will avoid those 978 death, it still not worth it Again. Much more than…

> these are just the most perfectly healthy people who still died, despite medical care

Of course, it could still happen but the chance are very low, flu still kills thousand of people every year, despite of vaccine.

>Have you looked at any other countries handling of the pandemic?

at least one country I know doesn't have mask mandate: sweeden.

not a country but Florida doesn't have statewide mask mandate and they are handling it very well (in my opinion). Went there for a week this past few months, so much better than other state. I would consider moving there.

>Again. Much more than 978 deaths.

How much more ? Whats the evidence that those 978 is avoidable because of mask ?

>How do you feel about businesses requiring masks for entry?

I think its silly but their business their rule as long as I can choose other business that doesn't require mask or if I have business I can choose to not requiring mask.

Re: We can have democracy or we can have Facebook

#504

Post by Shared404 »

matz1 wrote: post #502
Shared404 wrote: post #498

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Its still such a low number. Again, there are much more than this that should be attributed to covid, these are just the most perfectly healthy people who still died, despite medical care. > There is no conclusive evidence that mask will reduce the death Have you looked at any other countries handling of the pandemic? > and even if wearing mask will avoid those 978 death, it still not worth it Again. Much more than…

> these are just the most perfectly healthy people who still died, despite medical care Of course, it could still happen but the chance are very low, flu still kills thousand of people every year, despite of vaccine. >Have you looked at any other countries handling of the pandemic? at least one country I know doesn't have mask mandate: sweeden. not a country but Florida doesn't have statewide mask mandate and they ar…

> How much more ?

This seems like a good method of determining this [0].

> Whats the evidence that those 978 is avoidable because of mask ?

Physics, New Zealand, Japan, most other countries.

> How much more ?

This seems like a good method of determining this [0].

> as long as I can choose other business that doesn't require mask or if I have business I can choose to not requiring mask.

So what if all businesses require masks?

[0] https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid19/excess_deaths.htm

Re: We can have democracy or we can have Facebook

#505

Post by matz1 »

Shared404 wrote: post #504
matz1 wrote: post #502

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> these are just the most perfectly healthy people who still died, despite medical care Of course, it could still happen but the chance are very low, flu still kills thousand of people every year, despite of vaccine. >Have you looked at any other countries handling of the pandemic? at least one country I know doesn't have mask mandate: sweeden. not a country but Florida doesn't have statewide mask mandate and they ar…

> How much more ? This seems like a good method of determining this [0]. > Whats the evidence that those 978 is avoidable because of mask ? Physics, New Zealand, Japan, most other countries. > How much more ? This seems like a good method of determining this [0]. > as long as I can choose other business that doesn't require mask or if I have business I can choose to not requiring mask. So what if all businesses requi…

>Physics,

How the physics work in this case?

virus particle is much smaller than mask pores, especially with most mask that worn by general public

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9RaBLKKXJt4

> New Zealand, Japan, most other countries.

In those countries, What evidence that it is the mask that responsible for it ?

Sweden, Florida, South Dakota doesn't have mask mandate and they are doing very well.

>So what if all businesses require masks?

very unlikely, even if that the case then if I own business I can have competitive advantage by attracting customer that don't like mask.

Re: We can have democracy or we can have Facebook

#506

Post by Shared404 »

matz1 wrote: post #505
Shared404 wrote: post #504

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> How much more ? This seems like a good method of determining this [0]. > Whats the evidence that those 978 is avoidable because of mask ? Physics, New Zealand, Japan, most other countries. > How much more ? This seems like a good method of determining this [0]. > as long as I can choose other business that doesn't require mask or if I have business I can choose to not requiring mask. So what if all businesses requi…

>Physics, How the physics work in this case? virus particle is much smaller than mask pores, especially with most mask that worn by general public https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9RaBLKKXJt4 > New Zealand, Japan, most other countries. In those countries, What evidence that it is the mask that responsible for it ? Sweden, Florida, South Dakota doesn't have mask mandate and they are doing very well. >So what if all bus…

> How the physics work in this case?

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32371934/

https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.04.19.20071779v...

> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9RaBLKKXJt4

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCcnTNQG1_WkZ5h7go3B0Ntw/abo...

This about page looks... not so trustworthy.

"SECOND OPiNION!!" -- Capitalization and punctuation taken from page.

> Sweden, Florida, South Dakota

https://www.mediaite.com/news/sweden-once-heralded-for-avoid...

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/usa/florida/

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/south-dakota-covid-kristi-noem-...

Re: We can have democracy or we can have Facebook

#507

Post by matz1 »

Shared404 wrote: post #506
matz1 wrote: post #505

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Physics, How the physics work in this case? virus particle is much smaller than mask pores, especially with most mask that worn by general public https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9RaBLKKXJt4 > New Zealand, Japan, most other countries. In those countries, What evidence that it is the mask that responsible for it ? Sweden, Florida, South Dakota doesn't have mask mandate and they are doing very well. >So what if all bus…

> How the physics work in this case? https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32371934/ https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.04.19.20071779v... > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9RaBLKKXJt4 https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCcnTNQG1_WkZ5h7go3B0Ntw/abo... This about page looks... not so trustworthy. "SECOND OPiNION!!" -- Capitalization and punctuation taken from page. > Sweden, Florida, South Dakota https://www.mediaite…

>https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32371934/

'Our results indicate that surgical face masks could prevent transmission of human coronaviruses and influenza viruses from symptomatic individuals.'

Doesn't say anything about clothes mask that most people use.

>https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.04.19.20071779v...

Its say it may block some droplet, and even then require 2 or 3 layers of cloth. Does not saying anything about whether it can reduce virus transmission.

>This about page looks... not so trustworthy.

The page looks has nothing to do with the content/argument.

>https://www.mediaite.com/news/sweden-once-heralded-for-avoid...

So ? They have no mask mandate and still no lockdown and live is pretty much still normal there.

>https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/usa/florida/

So ? They are doing very well. I went there for visit myself recently and considering moving there.

>https://www.cbsnews.com/news/south-dakota-covid-kristi-noem-...

So ? She is doing the right thing and the state are doing well too.

Re: We can have democracy or we can have Facebook

#508

Post by Shared404 »

matz1 wrote: post #507
Shared404 wrote: post #506

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> How the physics work in this case? https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32371934/ https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.04.19.20071779v... > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9RaBLKKXJt4 https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCcnTNQG1_WkZ5h7go3B0Ntw/abo... This about page looks... not so trustworthy. "SECOND OPiNION!!" -- Capitalization and punctuation taken from page. > Sweden, Florida, South Dakota https://www.mediaite…

> https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32371934/ 'Our results indicate that surgical face masks could prevent transmission of human coronaviruses and influenza viruses from symptomatic individuals.' Doesn't say anything about clothes mask that most people use. > https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.04.19.20071779v ... Its say it may block some droplet, and even then require 2 or 3 layers of cloth. Does not saying…

A summary of this conversation so far:

---

You've moved the goalpost:

Masks don't work -> Some masks don't work.

---

Sources you've provided:

A paper that didn't cover the topic you were "refuting" with it: ( https://www.acpjournals.org/doi/10.7326/M20-6817 )

A YouTube video from a "doctor" who has provided no certifications, claims to be non political and is promoting a debunked theory (hydroxychloroquine), and has fixed the typo I pointed out to you to you the other day, so congrats on that one.

---

Topic you've not responded about:

Death's.

Both amount: ( https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid19/excess_deaths.htm )

And the rate increase demonstrated in the math earlier.

---

Unless you can provide some more substantive evidence than "I feel" and "This rando on YouTube agrees with me", I don't see any reason to continue this conversation further.

Edit: Formatting

Re: We can have democracy or we can have Facebook

#509

Post by matz1 »

Shared404 wrote: post #508
matz1 wrote: post #507

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32371934/ 'Our results indicate that surgical face masks could prevent transmission of human coronaviruses and influenza viruses from symptomatic individuals.' Doesn't say anything about clothes mask that most people use. > https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.04.19.20071779v ... Its say it may block some droplet, and even then require 2 or 3 layers of cloth. Does not saying…

A summary of this conversation so far: --- You've moved the goalpost: Masks don't work -> Some masks don't work. --- Sources you've provided: A paper that didn't cover the topic you were "refuting" with it: ( https://www.acpjournals.org/doi/10.7326/M20-6817 ) A YouTube video from a "doctor" who has provided no certifications, claims to be non political and is promoting a debunked theory (hydroxychloroquine), and has…

> https://www.acpjournals.org/doi/10.7326/M20-6817

from the results itself :

Although the difference observed was not statistically significant, the 95% CIs are compatible with a 46% reduction to a 23% increase in infection

and from the conclusion :

The recommendation to wear surgical masks to supplement other public health measures did not reduce the SARS-CoV-2 infection rate among wearers by more than 50% in a community with modest infection rates, some degree of social distancing, and uncommon general mask use. The data were compatible with lesser degrees of self-protection

> "This rando on YouTube agrees with me"

In the YouTube I linked to She is a medical professional and she listed the research paper she referenced and we are not talking about hydroxychloroquine at all.

>Both amount: ( https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid19/excess_deaths.htm )

So there is death to covid, i never refute this.

What is the evidence that mask can reduce this death ?

Re: We can have democracy or we can have Facebook

#510

Post by Shared404 »

matz1 wrote: post #509
Shared404 wrote: post #508

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A summary of this conversation so far: --- You've moved the goalpost: Masks don't work -> Some masks don't work. --- Sources you've provided: A paper that didn't cover the topic you were "refuting" with it: ( https://www.acpjournals.org/doi/10.7326/M20-6817 ) A YouTube video from a "doctor" who has provided no certifications, claims to be non political and is promoting a debunked theory (hydroxychloroquine), and has…

> https://www.acpjournals.org/doi/10.7326/M20-6817 from the results itself : Although the difference observed was not statistically significant, the 95% CIs are compatible with a 46% reduction to a 23% increase in infection and from the conclusion : The recommendation to wear surgical masks to supplement other public health measures did not reduce the SARS-CoV-2 infection rate among wearers by more than 50% in a comm…

> from the results itself :

Again, taken from the "Limitations" section:

"no assessment of whether masks could decrease disease transmission from mask wearers to others."

I never said that masks greatly help protect the individual, I said they help slow the spread of the pandemic.

> She is a medical professional

Any chance you could link me to here credentials then? Has she authored any peer reviewed papers?

Actually, I'll look her up. Presuming this [0] is her, she appears to have participated in... no peer reviewed research. In addition, on this [1] website, she both claims to be non political, and to have appeared on this list of shows... "The Tucker Carlson Show, The Ingraham Angle, The Glenn Beck Show, The Charlie Kirk Show, The Dennis Prager Show, Day Star Television"

So, despite her being an obvious liar, at least she is an emergency medical professional, I'll give her that. A shame she's not a virologist.

> What is the evidence that mask can reduce this death ?

We've been over this as well. Masks reduce pandemic reduces death.

Do you have any other sources?

---

[0] https://www.docinfo.org/search/docprofile?docid=CA796BDA-28F...

[1] https://www.americasfrontlinedoctors.com/mission-statement/

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