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Child-safety laws may reduce the birth rate

economist.com

171–180 of 411 posts

Re: Child-safety laws may reduce the birth rate

#171

This is an actual conversation I had to have with my wife, having a third kid definitely requires a larger vehicle as the vast majority of cars today simply don't work for a family of five. Child car seats are too wide and the backseats of most cars are too narrow, and the price jump to a vehicle that would be able to handle three child car seats at once is enormous. Throw in some dogs, a couple pieces of luggage tha…

> the vast majority of cars today simply don't work for a family of five

I recently visited Pakistan for the first time, and was amazed to see a family of five riding around on a small Honda motorbike. The father was driving, a small child sat in front of the father, the was mother hanging on behind the father, and the oldest daughter sitting on the far back with both legs hanging off to the left while holding an infant. None of them were wearing helmets. It was both terrifying & impressive.

Re: Child-safety laws may reduce the birth rate

#172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Helmets are big unwieldy things. They're not easy to carry, and are shaped such that even if you had a bag big enough for one, it would probably crowd out a lot of things that might also go in the bag (e.g. very few bags might hold a 15-in laptop and also a helmet) It is inconvenient to take spontaneous or quick bike rides if you have to lug a helmet around everywhere. Also, there is at least some debate about whethe…

Personal anecdote, probably irrelevant. When we were kids in the 80s, we bicycled to school. My parents heard about bike helmets (which were pretty new at that time) and bought them for us. I kept mine on the back rack, because I thought they were utterly uncool. Then one day, a guy wasn't paying attention, ran a stop-sign at high speed when we were still in the intersection, and hit my sister's bike's front wheel. T…

I don't think anyone argues that in specific incidents helmets are safer.

The question is whether or not the second order effects of compulsory helmets outweigh the benefits for the individual, namely;

- helmets make biking more inconvenient and compulsory usage of helmets suppresses cycling rates. In addition to the argument that is is a net negative because people get less exercise, there is also a second argument; because cyclists are less common, drivers are less familiar with how to interact with them, which leads to poorer judgement and more accidents per capita for the people still cycling. (In some cases, unfamiliarity also breeds anger and resentment; many a cyclist has a story of getting run off the road, drivers rolling coal at them, etc.)

- drivers are generally overestimating confidence and safety when it comes to cycling. They may generally act more dangerously around people who look like they know what they're doing (e.g. the stereotype of the Lycra-clad road biker), which leads to more and deadlier accidents.

As far as your sister's accident goes, there are two modes of thinking about it. One is to create more regulation, which generally tends to encumber the more vulnerable user (e.g. mandatory helmets), and depends on pretty much constant, vigilant enforcment; the other is to physically engineer a road environment where a high-speed intersection collision is less likely, if at all possible. (This may involve things like a tight roundabout to force slow speeds and paying attention; raising the crosswalks or even the entire intersection; narrowing the road and installing chicanes so that one cannot speed in a straight line down a road; or creating a shared space by removing all curbs and road markings so that one must pay attention because the environment is so uncertain and confusing.)

Re: Child-safety laws may reduce the birth rate

#173
post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Out of curiosity: why do you ride without a helmet?

Helmets are big unwieldy things. They're not easy to carry, and are shaped such that even if you had a bag big enough for one, it would probably crowd out a lot of things that might also go in the bag (e.g. very few bags might hold a 15-in laptop and also a helmet) It is inconvenient to take spontaneous or quick bike rides if you have to lug a helmet around everywhere. Also, there is at least some debate about whethe…

> e.g. very few bags might hold a 15-in laptop and also a helmet

I clip the helmet to the backpack straps.

Re: Child-safety laws may reduce the birth rate

#174
post #66
post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because our entire capitalist economic system is built on consumption, which is largely reliant on the birth rate being above the replacement rate (2.1). This is especially important for some sectors like durable consumer goods, housing, etc.

Why is this downvoted?

For one, the word "above" is unfounded. At or slightly below works too. You can have a consumption-based economy where the population drops 1% per decade just fine.

But more than that, even the least capitalist economy is going to have trouble if the ratio of young healthy workers drops too low.

Re: Child-safety laws may reduce the birth rate

#175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Helmets are big unwieldy things. They're not easy to carry, and are shaped such that even if you had a bag big enough for one, it would probably crowd out a lot of things that might also go in the bag (e.g. very few bags might hold a 15-in laptop and also a helmet) It is inconvenient to take spontaneous or quick bike rides if you have to lug a helmet around everywhere. Also, there is at least some debate about whethe…

Put the helmet on the bike?

Not particularly secure (unless you go to the expense of getting a second lock for the bike helmet) and depending on the configuration of the bike parking where you are, may not fit with other bikes parked.

Re: Child-safety laws may reduce the birth rate

#176

The reality for a lot of families is that having children is frighteningly expensive. The twin costs of childcare and a reduction in parental work hours (often mom's) and as a result future career and income advancement potential can be substantial drag on a family's income. Each additional child just prolongs this drag. Multigenerational households where grandparents provide childcare are one solution around this pr…

Women getting into the workplace have made it expensive. Women don't generate enough economic value to cover the economic value they provided as housewives. Even the small economic value they do create is usually eaten by increased rent or mortgage to match the increase in family income. It was a bad deal for everybody to get women out to the workplace.

Re: Child-safety laws may reduce the birth rate

#177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But it protects you if you fall off your bike.

That happens almost never.

Just like getting hit by a car happens almost never? Anecdotally, I have never been hit by a car, but have fallen off my bike multiple times for a variety of reasons: bike entered the lane without warning while I was going downhill, I hit a rock on the road, front tire got caught in a groove in the road, …

Re: Child-safety laws may reduce the birth rate

#179

This is an actual conversation I had to have with my wife, having a third kid definitely requires a larger vehicle as the vast majority of cars today simply don't work for a family of five. Child car seats are too wide and the backseats of most cars are too narrow, and the price jump to a vehicle that would be able to handle three child car seats at once is enormous. Throw in some dogs, a couple pieces of luggage tha…

I agree, but I also have friends who fit three car seats into a Honda. It’s super tight, but it can be done.

Re: Child-safety laws may reduce the birth rate

#180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Put the helmet on the bike?

Not particularly secure (unless you go to the expense of getting a second lock for the bike helmet) and depending on the configuration of the bike parking where you are, may not fit with other bikes parked.

I mean, it’s just a helmet. Sure, I lock it so you’d have to cut the strap to get it (thus rendering it largely useless without repair), but in general the theft rate of helmets is low enough that I can just eat the cost of buying a new one.
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