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Firefox Was Always Enough

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Re: Firefox Was Always Enough

#441

Post by jagger27 »

fabrice_d wrote: post #421
zamadatix wrote: post #408

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So I guess the question is what made KaiOS able to succeed instead of fail if we're saying the problems FirefoxOS faced weren't execution? Was it simply different timing and now more operators are willing to partner?

The GP is mostly wrong. What killed FxOS in the market is the lack of official support for one extremely popular messaging application starting by W. Then Mozilla's leadership didn't have the patience to wait for the right opportunity.

Firefox OS predates the 'F' acquisition of 'W' by about a year, right? Did that have anything to do with it, in your opinion?

Re: Firefox Was Always Enough

#442

Post by TedDoesntTalk »

fabrice_d wrote: post #421
zamadatix wrote: post #408

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So I guess the question is what made KaiOS able to succeed instead of fail if we're saying the problems FirefoxOS faced weren't execution? Was it simply different timing and now more operators are willing to partner?

The GP is mostly wrong. What killed FxOS in the market is the lack of official support for one extremely popular messaging application starting by W. Then Mozilla's leadership didn't have the patience to wait for the right opportunity.

Lack of WhatsApp support did not kill FirefoxOS.

Re: Firefox Was Always Enough

#443

Post by jdashg »

hpoe wrote: post #414
mekoka wrote: post #135

It seems to me that Mozilla isn't just technologically pessimistic, but they also just lack vision for the future of the web and what roles the browser could play in it. Right now, the only reason we're talking about them is that Firefox is sitting atop a sizable share of a practically impenetrable market. Very successful companies are being started around much less of a product, but Mozilla seems to genuinely have n…

I think that a better "Enterprise" edition would be one that allows remote administrative control and centralized management, that's what large orgs would want out of something like that. That's why AD and Azure MDM are so popular because of the level of control they provide.

There more-or-less already is this, it's just not an entirely different release channel/product: https://www.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/enterprise/

Re: Firefox Was Always Enough

#444

Post by fabrice_d »

jagger27 wrote: post #441
fabrice_d wrote: post #421

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The GP is mostly wrong. What killed FxOS in the market is the lack of official support for one extremely popular messaging application starting by W. Then Mozilla's leadership didn't have the patience to wait for the right opportunity.

Firefox OS predates the 'F' acquisition of 'W' by about a year, right? Did that have anything to do with it, in your opinion?

No I don't think this is related in any way.

Re: Firefox Was Always Enough

#445

Post by Karunamon »

vineyardmike wrote: post #300
A4ET8a8uTh0 wrote: post #285

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know this may sound like a blasphemy and anachronism rolled into one, but why can we not return to purchasing a copy of software? All of a sudden, the incentives to deliver 'monetizable' product are gone, because you already got your money. Or that does not jibe with continuous rent seeking?

Also because many things that people want require a cloud and clouds are ongoing expenses not one time expenses.

Businesses that sold software as opposed to subscriptions also had ongoing expenses. Employees, office space, etc. That seems like a cop-out.

Re: Firefox Was Always Enough

#446

Post by wpietri »

wgjordan wrote: post #283
secondcoming wrote: post #278

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Out of all internet users out there, how many would choose Firefox just because it's written in rust? An insignificant fraction. That said. I've been using Firefox as my main browser for years. I only use chrome when a website needs it or works better in it.

If you stipulate that 'Rust is going to yield a lot of result when it comes to security, memory safety and maintainability' (see parent comment), then a great many Internet users out there would choose Firefox if as a result of being written in Rust it's more secure, memory-safe (less crashing/bugs) and maintainable (more and better features).

Firefox is already sufficiently secure and low-crash for my tastes. I guess it's possible that more features would benefit me, but I'm not convinced.

Re: Firefox Was Always Enough

#447

Post by fabrice_d »

TedDoesntTalk wrote: post #442
fabrice_d wrote: post #421

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The GP is mostly wrong. What killed FxOS in the market is the lack of official support for one extremely popular messaging application starting by W. Then Mozilla's leadership didn't have the patience to wait for the right opportunity.

Lack of WhatsApp support did not kill FirefoxOS.

Commercially, it totally did. Without Whatsapp we could not sell enough devices, but without enough volume Whatsapp was not interested to build an official app. Chicken, meet egg!

Re: Firefox Was Always Enough

#448

Post by postingawayonhn »

TheAdamAndChe wrote: post #344
heavyset_go wrote: post #335

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Imagine a web developer learning just a few APIs and being being able to customize their web app for smart TVs This was WebOS in 2009. Windows Phone, WebOS, Meego and Ubuntu Phone all "failed" around the same time period as Firefox OS. I have a hard time laying blame solely on Mozilla there.

What was the hard part that caused Android and iOS to win? Was it convincing manufacturers to ship with them? Or was it just the first mover advantage for iOS and the network effects of the Play Store with Android?

Apps. Google refused to build apps for Windows Phone. Microsoft even went as far as building a YouTube app for Windows Phone themselves (a very good one at the time) but Google quickly forced them to remove it.

Re: Firefox Was Always Enough

#449

Post by curryst »

ygjb wrote: post #428
leeoniya wrote: post #399

Earlier quoted context omitted.

also completely baffled by this. i'd have happily paid $100/yr if it went directly to firefox dev, not their other marketing shenanigns. they fired so much talent to focus on junk to drive revenue, that it's not something i can do anymore. very sad.

It's weird that when I tell my kids that when they want to help, but they won't help in the way that someone needs help, that they aren't actually helping, they understand it. Mozilla has buckets of money, between the Corporation and the Foundation. They are separate, for good-ish reasons? But they are separate. If they start allowing customers or businesses to pay for Firefox, then they will have to provide an entir…

> support Mozilla's mission and Firefox development.

That's the rub here. Mozilla's mission is a much larger scope than just Firefox. Some people want to support Firefox, but don't want to donate to Mozilla's mission. One such reason is because it's important to have more than one browser implementation. There's no way to support that without Mozilla allocating some portion of your donation to some unrelated part of their mission.

Re: Firefox Was Always Enough

#450

Post by curryst »

tleb_ wrote: post #429
TheAdamAndChe wrote: post #349

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it's why Firefox's market share is declining too. I don't recommend firefox for non-technical users anymore because of its relative complexity and incompatibility with the modern web when compared to Chrome.

What complexity are you referring to? And do you actually encounter issues while browsing using Firefox? I am curious as I don't relate to this and recommend Firefox to friends and family.

I've seen things that don't work quite right in Firefox. The Zoom webapp doesn't recognize some of my audio devices, but Chrome does. The Citrix gateway also fails to log in on Firefox sometimes.

I don't know whether those are bugs in Firefox or if Chrome is doing something funky that causes it to work but not Firefox.

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