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The first person in the UK to have air pollution listed as a cause of death

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Re: The first person in the UK to have air pollution listed as a cause of death

#91

Post by kingsloi »

Shameless plug, I've been working on a community air quality monitor for my little community https://millerbeach.community

I live a few miles from steel mills, oil refineries, who take advantage of Lake Michigan, constantly polluting both air and water, occasionally dumping/"releasing" more toxic chemicals than permitted and don't raise the alarm for a few days: https://www.in.gov/idem/cleanwater/2576.htm, killing thousands of fish, closing water intake, parts of the National Park, etc. etc.

I've lived in Gary, IN since 2016, moving from the UK. A few weeks ago, a young lad from Gary died of a really rare cancer: https://www.cnn.com/2020/11/18/us/ben-watkins-masterchef/ind...

Last week, my 3 month old daughter got diagnosed with really rare genetic disorder called Kabuki Syndrome, on top of heart disease.

Who knows if either is/was caused by living so close to steel mills and/or pollution, but I'm skeptical. Did I cause/impact/increase/etc my daughter's condition by choosing to live next to a steel mill? I just have to accept that I'll never know the answer to that question.

Re: The first person in the UK to have air pollution listed as a cause of death

#92

Post by olivermarks »

nvarsj wrote: post #84
olivermarks wrote: post #64

A child with serious asthma issues should not be living near a major traffic artery, this could have been a quickly remedied social situation. 'A 2018 report found unlawful levels of pollution, which were detected at a monitoring station one mile from Ella's home, contributed to her fatal asthma attack'. The girl lived '25 metres from the South circular' in Lewisham. Listing her death with claims 'air pollution' were…

It’s sort of ridiculous to suggest moving house and family is “quick and easy”. Most likely her house was only affordable because it was in such a polluted area. Many areas in London are like this unfortunately - walls completely covered in soot from diesel vehicles. They simply need to ban diesel in the city.

Nobody said anything about 'quick and easy'.

I lived close to the westway and used to cycle a lot in London, I'm pretty aware of denser urban arteries, but walls are not completely covered in soot from diesel vehicles, which are now much cleaner than ever before.

There is a tremendous amount of dirt and debris from tires and road degradation around high traffic areas, you are probably confusing soot with dirt.

Better road maintenance, recycling tires to incorporate into road surfaces would help enormously especially with heavier vehicles like EV's, SUVs and trucks.

Re: The first person in the UK to have air pollution listed as a cause of death

#93

Post by lmilcin »

satysin wrote: post #26
pietrovismara wrote: post #25

This pandemic gave me so much to think about air pollution. It puzzles me how we can have, just in Europe, around 800k yearly premature deaths caused by pollution[0] and still not care at all. On the other hand, covid-19 hasn't caused yet as many deaths but we quickly intervened, as it should be. Why can't we, as a society, react with the same effectiveness to air pollution? - [0]: https://academic.oup.com/eurheartj/…

I live in [redacted], [redacted] and we often have high air pollution warnings and you really can feel it in the air. During lockdown, back in April and May, there was a noticeable difference in the air quality. It felt different. When we went out for a walk you could also tell the difference in noise pollution from there being so few cars on the roads. It was lovely. There is a church nearby that we can sometimes he…

Only minority of cars are responsible for majority of pollution.

A single badly maintained diesel car produces as much pollution as thousands of legal new cars.

Same goes for trucks -- the low in air pollution you felt was likely not due to less cars but less trucks (and possibly busses, depending on where in Europe you live)

Re: The first person in the UK to have air pollution listed as a cause of death

#94

Post by triceratops »

spaetzleesser wrote: post #81
scaladev wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am not trying to undervalue your problems, but I suggest looking at some third world countries for some perspective. I live in one such place. In winter (which lasts for about 8-9 months each year) the air pollution is _horrifyingly_ bad: 250-300 µg/m³ of PM2.5 at day time, and 900-1500 µg/m³ each night. I am not bullshitting you, this is how we live. You can feel the taste of coal on tour tongue in a completely se…

I have visited Mumbai and now have co workers in New Delhi. I had to leave Mumbai after two days because I couldn't stand the air anymore. When I blew my nose it was just black stuff coming out and buy throat was constantly scratchy. And from what I hear it's even worse in New Delhi. I only hope that people will wake up soon and change.

> and buy throat was constantly scratchy

When you're so congested that you even sound congested when you type. (sorry...)

Re: The first person in the UK to have air pollution listed as a cause of death

#95

Post by dfgdghdf »

m0nty wrote: post #61
pietrovismara wrote: post #25

This pandemic gave me so much to think about air pollution. It puzzles me how we can have, just in Europe, around 800k yearly premature deaths caused by pollution[0] and still not care at all. On the other hand, covid-19 hasn't caused yet as many deaths but we quickly intervened, as it should be. Why can't we, as a society, react with the same effectiveness to air pollution? - [0]: https://academic.oup.com/eurheartj/…

> Why can't we, as a society, react with the same effectiveness to air pollution? In the UK at least, the Society of Motor Manufacturers and Traders (SMMT) is a powerful lobby group. Car sales are used as a key economic indicator. Cars have long been seen as aspirational and a measure of personal success. Cars support other sectors of the economy such as civil engineering (roads, bridges), petroleum sales and car acc…

Indeed. What's really crazy is how the "anti" side has managed to claim to be the side of the working class, fighting against a "green liberal elite". This trope is incredibly harmful; the poor don't even own cars in London, yet breathe the most polluted air.

Re: The first person in the UK to have air pollution listed as a cause of death

#96

Post by albertgoeswoof »

kmfrk wrote: post #45

A lot of people are coming to terms with bad air quality, even in their homes. Air purifiers are selling like hotcakes, even where wildfires aren't a concern. One of the concerns I hope will stick after this thing is (largely) over. Something I would love for a HNer to solve is SEO for air purifiers: basically all Google results are absolute bullshit that make it harder, not easier, to make an informed choice. Much l…

https://which.co.uk has reviews of air purifiers

Re: The first person in the UK to have air pollution listed as a cause of death

#97

Post by throwaway201103 »

kingsloi wrote: post #91

Shameless plug, I've been working on a community air quality monitor for my little community https://millerbeach.community I live a few miles from steel mills, oil refineries, who take advantage of Lake Michigan, constantly polluting both air and water, occasionally dumping/"releasing" more toxic chemicals than permitted and don't raise the alarm for a few days: https://www.in.gov/idem/cleanwater/2576.htm , killing t…

Why do you live there? I mean of all places, Gary Indiana is near the bottom of the list of anyplace in the USA that I would consider living. Economically destitute, dysfunctional government, high crime, terrible schools, and horrible contamination from the steel mills. I assume it was a work-related move?

Re: The first person in the UK to have air pollution listed as a cause of death

#98

Post by Aachen »

amelius wrote: post #83
d_burfoot wrote: post #80

One very simple thing that we can do a much better job at is preventing people from idling their cars in pedestrian areas. I walk through supposedly eco-conscious Berkeley every day, and without fail there is at least one car stopped at the curb, idling, often while the owner plays with his phone. The problem has gotten much worse now that food-order apps are more popular. I think that people have some kind of magica…

I don't think the suicide argument makes sense because what kills you is the carbon monoxide or the lack of oxygen, both of which are not a problem outside.

Indeed, just because you can commit suicide by depriving yourself of oxygen using water doesn't mean water is bad in nature. Now, in this case we know that car byproducts are bad for the environment but it doesn't logically follow from the former.

Re: The first person in the UK to have air pollution listed as a cause of death

#99

Post by AdrianB1 »

wongarsu wrote: post #43
pietrovismara wrote: post #25

This pandemic gave me so much to think about air pollution. It puzzles me how we can have, just in Europe, around 800k yearly premature deaths caused by pollution[0] and still not care at all. On the other hand, covid-19 hasn't caused yet as many deaths but we quickly intervened, as it should be. Why can't we, as a society, react with the same effectiveness to air pollution? - [0]: https://academic.oup.com/eurheartj/…

The EU has limits for suspended particulate matter, and at least in Germany all the major cities are battling to stay within the thresholds. A few cities ban diesel vehicles in the city, others put expensive air purifiers next to the measuring stations. People seem to love their cars more than their health, and other measures like modernizing heating don't seem to have much traction.

What I observed in my area is that people are not loving cars more than their health, but they cannot make a difference at a personal level, many don't want to change anything and then people who care stop believing anything can be done and give up. Air pollution is not a fire you can extinguish in 15 minute and move on, it is mass phenomenon with millions of tiny participants, it is the death of the thousand cuts and no individual can change it alone.

Re: The first person in the UK to have air pollution listed as a cause of death

#100

Post by kingsloi »

throwaway201103 wrote: post #97
kingsloi wrote: post #91

Shameless plug, I've been working on a community air quality monitor for my little community https://millerbeach.community I live a few miles from steel mills, oil refineries, who take advantage of Lake Michigan, constantly polluting both air and water, occasionally dumping/"releasing" more toxic chemicals than permitted and don't raise the alarm for a few days: https://www.in.gov/idem/cleanwater/2576.htm , killing t…

Why do you live there? I mean of all places, Gary Indiana is near the bottom of the list of anyplace in the USA that I would consider living. Economically destitute, dysfunctional government, high crime, terrible schools, and horrible contamination from the steel mills. I assume it was a work-related move?

In 2011, I was in college in the UK, managed to score a year internship in Chesterton, IN, a few miles from Gary. Lived in Valparaiso while I worked in Chesterton. Revisited same city in 2016, met my now wife who is from Crown Point. We got married and rented from a friend in the Miller Beach community neighbourhood of Gary https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miller_Beach, a block from some really wonderful beaches, dunes, nature reserves, etc. Never understood "lake life" but after having lived a "lake life" for a while, I really loved it. Walking my little old dog in the morning alone on the beach with a coffee, listening to some nice music, on a nice calm day, really was a some of the nicest, most peaceful times of my life.

I knew about Gary's history, but I really put it to the back of my head, I always thought it couldn't be that bad, could it? Or, I wouldn't be affected, would I? I knew the bad schools, crime, etc, I knew my wife and I would have kids, I always thought I'd deal with it when I'd need to deal with it, just didn't think it would affect me so seriously, so soon.

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