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Firefox Was Always Enough

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Re: Firefox Was Always Enough

#301

Post by terracatta »

minikites wrote: post #93
terracatta wrote: post #26

I think Safari is going to have the market cornered on technology pessimism (aka privacy features) and browser performance per watt on macOS and iOS. Google is rapidly locking down enterprise by building in tight integrations with Google Workspace/G-Suite (see: context aware authentication). In 10 - 15 years the web should be better than it is today. The first step in their recovery is to convey what their vision of…

>In 10 - 15 years the web should be better than it is today. Is the web better now than it was in 2005-2010? I don't think it is and I don't see the trend arbitrarily reversing. Tons of regular people (and even tech-savvy folks who should know better) voluntarily use, love, and advocate for using a browser (and email service!) made by the modern equivalent of DoubleClick.

Are there things that have gotten worse? Yes Are things way more complicated? Yes

But net overall? I believe it's better than 2005 and even 2010. Meaning, I would not want to revert back to 2010 and start building back up from there. There is too much good we would lose in the process.

I have no idea if my opinion is shared by the majority, but I am very optimistic about the future of the web.

Re: Firefox Was Always Enough

#303

Post by geogra4 »

robertlagrant wrote: post #170

> I don’t have a read on Edge My guess it's MS will let Chromium do the heavy lifting, and they will integrate it nicely with AD etc and all IT departments will make it the new corporate default.

What's scary is that even Microsoft has essentially given up on an independent browser engine

Re: Firefox Was Always Enough

#304

Post by lotsofpulp »

minikites wrote: post #93
terracatta wrote: post #26

I think Safari is going to have the market cornered on technology pessimism (aka privacy features) and browser performance per watt on macOS and iOS. Google is rapidly locking down enterprise by building in tight integrations with Google Workspace/G-Suite (see: context aware authentication). In 10 - 15 years the web should be better than it is today. The first step in their recovery is to convey what their vision of…

>In 10 - 15 years the web should be better than it is today. Is the web better now than it was in 2005-2010? I don't think it is and I don't see the trend arbitrarily reversing. Tons of regular people (and even tech-savvy folks who should know better) voluntarily use, love, and advocate for using a browser (and email service!) made by the modern equivalent of DoubleClick.

I would not characterize people's choice of web browsers, or people's choice of which websites they want to interact with as "the web".

The characteristics of the web from 20+ years ago are still there. Many or most people just prefer not to use that type of web from 20+ years ago.

Everyone is still free to use whichever browser they want to access whichever website they want (in the US at least) in the same manner they did in the previous decades.

Re: Firefox Was Always Enough

#305

Post by bsdubernerd »

mybrid wrote: post #302

Firefox on Android still only has 10 Add ons. Ten. It just seems to me Mozilla is deliberately killing Firefox off.

I still use FF on a desktop, but on Android is not Firefox for me. It's just as dumb (if not dumber) than chrome, and serves no purpose whatsoever without addons.

I also don't get the point of limiting addons to a vetted whitelist. I feared this would be the case since they introduced signing requirements, and that's precisely what happened. I waited a bit, but I completely lost interest since the new mobile redesign which also destroyed the UI usability for me.

Mozilla will need to do a complete turn-around to get me back on mobile.

Re: Firefox Was Always Enough

#306

Post by sradman »

BrendanEich wrote: post #239
sradman wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And that Eich went on to create the privacy focused Brave browser based on Chromium. Yet, these mistakes didn’t really change the downward trajectory. Apple and Google are the dominant mobile platforms and I can’t see how an independent desktop browser can grow against competent conglomerates.

Brave has grown every month since early beta launch. It can be done, but Firefox has lost share almost every month for a long time. Google distributing and marketing Chrome definitely hurts Firefox, and yet Brave grows. A mystery to discuss another time.

> A mystery to discuss another time.

The article discusses four strategies and I think your (assuming you are the Brendan Eich) strategy for Brave falls under 3. Technological pessimism, though it needs a better name.

You are correct, growth for a desktop browser is possible, I misspoke, but I think the general browser market is a tough nut to crack. Good luck. Your (Brendan Eich's) past and present work is greatly appreciated.

Re: Firefox Was Always Enough

#307

Post by jonathankoren »

jillesvangurp wrote: post #133

I'm a happy Firefox user. IMHO the thing that needs sorting out is the relation between Mozilla the company and Mozilla the Foundation. I just browsed the website of the Mozilla Foundation and to my surprise learned that Firefox development is not one of its responsibilities. I was assuming that that was in fact its primary mission. It's not apparently. Maybe I'm wrong and it's just a vague website but it reads to me…

The Foundation owns the Corporation. MoFo is tiny, probably tens of people. MoCo was huge with over a 1000, now I’d guess it’s about 700. MoCo exists to write Firefox and various other Mozilla products. MoFo exists to give out grants and to own MoCo.

It’s a weird setup sure, but it wasn’t originally like this. Originally there was just the nonprofit Mozilla, but IRS rules got in the way. If I remember correctly, the IRS requires a certain amount percentage of income for a nonprofit to come from donations, and Mozilla was below that threshold because they were making too much money from the Google search deal (which legally is selling a product). Mozilla split themselves this way to get around the tax laws.

If Mozilla was founded today, they’d probably incorporate as a B corp, but those didn’t exist back in the early aughts, so they have this strange setup instead. They could always reincorporate as a B Corp, but there’s no benefit to do so.

Re: Firefox Was Always Enough

#308

Post by toyg »

tmottabr wrote: post #286
toyg wrote: post #273

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is Raindrop active? I can only find archived / discontinued stuff.

Never seen any indication that it isn't. I use it for a few years already and never had any problem. i like it more than pockets. https://raindrop.io/

Ah ok, so this is not Mozilla Raindrop. Thanks for the clarification.

Re: Firefox Was Always Enough

#310

Post by tleb_ »

wgjordan wrote: post #283
secondcoming wrote: post #278

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Out of all internet users out there, how many would choose Firefox just because it's written in rust? An insignificant fraction. That said. I've been using Firefox as my main browser for years. I only use chrome when a website needs it or works better in it.

If you stipulate that 'Rust is going to yield a lot of result when it comes to security, memory safety and maintainability' (see parent comment), then a great many Internet users out there would choose Firefox if as a result of being written in Rust it's more secure, memory-safe (less crashing/bugs) and maintainable (more and better features).

Maybe in the Hacker News bubble but that's not "a great many Internet users". People either use what is pre-installed, what they are used to or what their techy friend recommended them.
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