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Nearly 8M Americans have fallen into poverty since summer

washingtonpost.com

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Re: Nearly 8M Americans have fallen into poverty since summer

#101

Post by jeromegv »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #19
powersnail wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Another aspect is that selling used stuff doesn’t bring much money in, especially clothing. I don’t even know whether it’s sellable. Apart from my car, if I sell all my belongings, I might get one month worth of rent. Hardly seems worth it, unless there is a way to use that money to earn more money.

Also can’t sell or trade your car to downgrade if you need a car, as if you need financing to get the next car, you’re not going to qualify for the loan if you’re without employment. Your car is a trailing indicator of your financial situation, not necessarily present state.

The fact that most jobs require a car is a huge deterrent for most low income people to actually find a job. Great public transit is not just something to help the poor, it's also a way to make workers be able to get to work, it's good for the economy and yet we look at it almost as charity.

Re: Nearly 8M Americans have fallen into poverty since summer

#102

Post by alistairSH »

enriquec wrote: post #40
purple_ferret wrote: post #29

Yet the rich get richer as Congress passes 'relief' plans that allow the wealthy to sneak massive chunks of cash directly into their pockets. Here's just one example: "According to the National Federation of Independent Business (NFIB), about 85% of all the approved Paycheck Protection Program (PPP) loans were for less than $150,000...The bipartisan bill holds the intention of automatically forgiving loans of less th…

Class warfare is pointless. Businesses are shuttering. Sure, make accusations of fraud (do you have any proof?) - but those expenses can't be frivolous unless you want a huge issue with the IRS. Should relief be so strict and policed (its own cost) or should it be flexible for businesses that may have had to build outdoor accomodations?

Sure, make accusations of fraud

The OP didn't allege fraud. He stated two facts... relief loans were not required to cover wages. Loans I don't think it's unreasonable to require some % of the loans to cover wages of employee's whose hours were cut or were furloughed completely.

That said, a better option would have been direct payments to employees from the government. The $1200 check model but on a larger scale (ie, $1200/month or similar).

Re: Nearly 8M Americans have fallen into poverty since summer

#103

Post by uoaei »

neuland wrote: post #62
uoaei wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't see how that would be a reason to stop the lockdowns. Remember that there is a severe respiratory contagion going around that spreads from breathing the same air as infected folks.

Florida, Texas, and Sweden seem to be doing fine enough.

Are you being serious? I am seriously baffled that you think that is true.

Re: Nearly 8M Americans have fallen into poverty since summer

#104

Post by t-writescode »

umvi wrote: post #82
t-writescode wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most reasonable people that asked for lockdowns also asked for stimulus packages to give those people who couldn't work money while they're out of work so they could survive.

And other reasonable people are concerned with the side effects of printing 3+ trillion dollars

A very frustrating thing with this statement is that it's very arguable that financing the survival of this country's citizens during a lockdown is _exactly_ the sort of thing the government should be doing, as well as minimizing the duration of the lockdown. It enables the status quo to return quickly and minimizes the change to the social fabric. Those are things I would have imagined conservatives would want: stability.

It's very strange that we couldn't move money around and hadn't been saving money "for a rainy day" exactly like this one.

Re: Nearly 8M Americans have fallen into poverty since summer

#105

Post by snarfy »

ceilingcorner wrote: post #68

Meanwhile, some of the strongest voices calling for near-permanent lockdowns came from the well-paid professional classes, who could afford to order Uber Eats twice a day and had zero chance of losing their over-inflated incomes. The continuing erosion of the middle class isn’t a good thing. Expect populist political rhetoric to continue growing.

The near-permanent lockdowns needed to be offset by government payment programs like they were in every other developed country except the US. If they shut everything down but don't offset it somehow, what do they expect the result to be? The $1200 check was laughable.

Re: Nearly 8M Americans have fallen into poverty since summer

#106

Post by jeromegv »

ceilingcorner wrote: post #68

Meanwhile, some of the strongest voices calling for near-permanent lockdowns came from the well-paid professional classes, who could afford to order Uber Eats twice a day and had zero chance of losing their over-inflated incomes. The continuing erosion of the middle class isn’t a good thing. Expect populist political rhetoric to continue growing.

Whatever the US did was not near permanent lockdowns, what is allowed to continue and be opened is more lenient than almost every country. The only countries with less restrictions than the US are opened exactly because they did a lockdown and kept the virus at bay. What kills the US economy is the virus being out there and making people afraid to get together into public settings.

Re: Nearly 8M Americans have fallen into poverty since summer

#108

Post by WorkingDead »

uoaei wrote: post #52
just-juan-post wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wrong. A reminder that Nancy Pelosi turned down not one but two $1 trillion+ stimulus offer from the White House before the election. Trump makes $1.8 trillion economic relief offer, but deal with Pelosi remains elusive (Oct 09 2020) https://www.washingtonpost.com/us-policy/2020/10/09/trump-ec... Nancy Pelosi blasts the White House's $1.6 trillion stimulus plan, saying it's not even 'half a loaf' (Oct 01 2020) https:…

I notice folks getting starry-eyed in the face of these big numbers. But if you look at how that money is allocated, it won't be very good for anyone except those who are milking this crisis for all they can. The bill needs to be much bigger to have any considerable impact. Remember -- the economy only works if people are spending money, and people are only spending money when they have money in their pockets . Trick…

Dont move the goal post.

Re: Nearly 8M Americans have fallen into poverty since summer

#109

Post by aaron-santos »

AnimalMuppet wrote: post #37
HenryKissinger wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Republicans refused to remove a liability shield for companies from the bill. That's a good reason to refuse to pass the bill.

Is it? Why is that so important that it's worth not aiding millions of people who are dropping into poverty?

It shifts the risk from business to employees without commiserate compensation. For an economy built around risk-reward, why should employees have to assume more risk while their reward remains the same?

Re: Nearly 8M Americans have fallen into poverty since summer

#110

Post by umvi »

kergonath wrote: post #14
war1025 wrote: post #2

Who would have guessed that kneecapping the service industry would be bad for the service sector?

Dead customers aren’t that much better for the service industry.

All the customers wouldn't be dead, 1% or less of the customers.
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