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Nearly 8M Americans have fallen into poverty since summer

washingtonpost.com

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Re: Nearly 8M Americans have fallen into poverty since summer

#31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The blame for the situation lies squarely at the feet of the federal government. If you are going to shutter businesses and put people out of work, you need to pay the business owners and the employees who you have affected. Staying economically viable vs staying medically viable should have never been a tradeoff people had to make here, and Americans should all remember that when the next election rolls around.

The FEDERAL government didn't do anything. STATE and LOCAL governments did. Why should the federal government bail out states for their actions? And yeah I will remember all this during the next election. I was a Democrat all my life until early 2020 and now I'm done. I'll be voting against them from now on.

Not saying you're wrong, but... what particularly did the Democrats do (or not do)?

Re: Nearly 8M Americans have fallen into poverty since summer

#32
post #2

Who would have guessed that kneecapping the service industry would be bad for the service sector?

The blame for the situation lies squarely at the feet of the federal government. If you are going to shutter businesses and put people out of work, you need to pay the business owners and the employees who you have affected. Staying economically viable vs staying medically viable should have never been a tradeoff people had to make here, and Americans should all remember that when the next election rolls around.

> The blame for the situation lies squarely at the feet of the federal government

It's more complex than that. The UK is keeping things stable/frozen, but with nothing being produced, the value of their money is shifting.

You cannot keep paying people to do nothing. You have people in jobs where they are still employed, saving tons (because there's nothing to spend it on) and record buying of future e-waste (Going back to the 2000s, PS3 prices were back to normal two weeks before x-mas Christmas. PS5s are still $1000+ on eBay), and the income inequality is growing between those who happen to be in safe industries and those who weren't .. and it's arbitrary. Nothing has changed for the manager at a Wal-Mart, or a UPS driver or an engineer, but it has for the restaurant manager or someone who owns a small corner store in California.

The completely arbitrary and almost random lock-down decisions have crushed all small business, giving over their entire customer bases to large big box stores.

The people with their small businesses don't want handouts. They'll take it sure, but they want to work. Some have shifted and found new creative ways to make money. That's the nature of capitalism. You do what you have to, within the limits we've evolved over the past 100 years (no more child labor; pure capitalism without regulation is bad), to offer goods and services people want. But many are struggling.

In contrast, the earlier larger unemployment payments provided a perverse incentive to keep people from returning to jobs that had reopened. Lowering them a bit has helped those return to jobs that were there, but it's been devastating to those who have nothing to go back to.

We cannot just inject money. Social welfare has been a disaster in many respect. Only only need to watch modern documentary that break the bubble: "What Killed Michael Brown" and "Uncle Tom" to see how the perverse incentives from badly constructed government systems actually hurt a lot of low income communities and destroyed families.

There is a lot of talk about "A great reset," used in many countries to indicate a global agenda to fundamentally change economic models. Make no mistake, people at the top with influence are not going to give up or redistribute their wealth. Bezos, Gates and others at the top will hold on to their wealth. But reconstruction could destroy people under a certain income threshold if it's not done correctly.

People need merit and value, and the draconian COVID regulations have removed personal agency from the masses.

Re: Nearly 8M Americans have fallen into poverty since summer

#33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Load of crap. Republicans were willing to negotiate on a smaller package. It was held up by the speaker because it made Trump look bad.

Source? I'd prefer a reputable one, if you please

Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez @AOC Nov 24

If you want to know why COVID relief is tied up in Congress, one key reason is that Republicans are demanding legal immunity for corporations so they can expose their workers to COVID without repercussions.

Dems don’t want you to die for a check. That’s what we’re fighting over.

https://twitter.com/aoc/status/1331322923534213120?lang=en

Re: Nearly 8M Americans have fallen into poverty since summer

#34
post #2

Who would have guessed that kneecapping the service industry would be bad for the service sector?

The issue is that the US government has refused to help people during a time when they should absolutely not be forced to work face to face jobs to pay the bills. Instead Republicans have held aid hostage in exchange for legislation allowing businesses to force employees to work in unsafe environments with no recourse[1]. Even so far as a measure that would allow the US attorney general to penalized employees up to $…

Wrong.

A reminder that Nancy Pelosi turned down not one but two $1 trillion+ stimulus offer from the White House before the election.

Trump makes $1.8 trillion economic relief offer, but deal with Pelosi remains elusive (Oct 09 2020)

https://www.washingtonpost.com/us-policy/2020/10/09/trump-ec...

Nancy Pelosi blasts the White House's $1.6 trillion stimulus plan, saying it's not even 'half a loaf' (Oct 01 2020)

https://www.businessinsider.com/nancy-pelosi-blasts-white-ho...

Re: Nearly 8M Americans have fallen into poverty since summer

#35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The blame for the situation lies squarely at the feet of the federal government. If you are going to shutter businesses and put people out of work, you need to pay the business owners and the employees who you have affected. Staying economically viable vs staying medically viable should have never been a tradeoff people had to make here, and Americans should all remember that when the next election rolls around.

But the federal government didn't shutter any businesses. You can thank the state governors, county officials and big city mayors for that.

Big city mayors, some of whom then turned around and dined indoors at $400 a plate kind of restaurants.

Re: Nearly 8M Americans have fallen into poverty since summer

#36
post #5

I heard this on NPR recently and was really moved by it [1]. Recommend reading the whole thing. > You know me. I'm in your friendship circle, hidden in plain sight. My clothes are still impeccable, bought in the good years when I was still making money. To look at me, you would not know that my electricity was cut off last week for non-payment or that I meet the eligibility requirements for food stamps. But if you pa…

The fear of "looking poor" is so real in the US, which makes it harder to see who's struggling. It also creates this cognitive dissonance I've noticed here on HN where an article gets posted with pictures of the extended lines at food banks and people point out that most people seem to be driving relatively new cars, therefore why are they in line at a food bank? I think a lot of people don't understand how poverty r…

It is very real, but if you can somehow escape from it there are huge advantages.

Not caring that we might look poor has been the biggest factor enabling me and my wife to build a good, stable life for ourselves while peers who out-earn us perpetually struggle on the brink of ruin.

Re: Nearly 8M Americans have fallen into poverty since summer

#37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Load of crap. Republicans were willing to negotiate on a smaller package. It was held up by the speaker because it made Trump look bad.

Republicans refused to remove a liability shield for companies from the bill. That's a good reason to refuse to pass the bill.

Is it? Why is that so important that it's worth not aiding millions of people who are dropping into poverty?

Re: Nearly 8M Americans have fallen into poverty since summer

#38
post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The blame for the situation lies squarely at the feet of the federal government. If you are going to shutter businesses and put people out of work, you need to pay the business owners and the employees who you have affected. Staying economically viable vs staying medically viable should have never been a tradeoff people had to make here, and Americans should all remember that when the next election rolls around.

The blame for the situation lies squarely at the feet of the state and local governments. The federal government didn't force any businesses to close. There is a huge variance between states in pandemic control measures. If businesses are still open in Florida then why should Floridians pay federal income taxes to subsidize closed businesses in California? And states do have options for funding relief at the state le…

I feel like rural areas are going to keep their small businesses alive and well, while city restaurants and service industry will collapse. Seattle and Portland will be Detroit within 2 years. Even after COIVD, that type of devastation would take a decade to recover from, if they had sound leaders. They don't, and it's only going to make it worse.

Re: Nearly 8M Americans have fallen into poverty since summer

#39
The other thing not being mentioned is alot of families who could never afford to buy homes can now buy homes.

It has also allowed alot of people to move into nicer areas of NYC that could not afford to before.

Alot of people's quality of life has increased, and alot of people who lost their income on paper also lost their requirement to pay rent and avoid being evicted or just moved into their parents homes.

There are some who have lost their income but also still have to pay bills and their quality of life has not improved. I think those numbers are not reflected in this article especially in relation to all of the people who could not afford to live in nice areas or buy homes who have now been able to.

In NYC when asian demographic no longer could come to the u.s. To invest $300k into an empty apartment building that they will never inhabit to expedite their green card process, are now being inhabited by hardworking Americans who were able to buy condos that previously they were not able to compete with with international millionaires using real estate for tax and legal loopholes.

None of this is reflected in the article.

Re: Nearly 8M Americans have fallen into poverty since summer

#40

Yet the rich get richer as Congress passes 'relief' plans that allow the wealthy to sneak massive chunks of cash directly into their pockets. Here's just one example: "According to the National Federation of Independent Business (NFIB), about 85% of all the approved Paycheck Protection Program (PPP) loans were for less than $150,000...The bipartisan bill holds the intention of automatically forgiving loans of less th…

Class warfare is pointless. Businesses are shuttering. Sure, make accusations of fraud (do you have any proof?) - but those expenses can't be frivolous unless you want a huge issue with the IRS. Should relief be so strict and policed (its own cost) or should it be flexible for businesses that may have had to build outdoor accomodations?
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