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Nearly 8M Americans have fallen into poverty since summer

washingtonpost.com

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Re: Nearly 8M Americans have fallen into poverty since summer

#21

Post by TheBlight »

just-juan-post wrote: post #16
OminousWeapons wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The blame for the situation lies squarely at the feet of the federal government. If you are going to shutter businesses and put people out of work, you need to pay the business owners and the employees who you have affected. Staying economically viable vs staying medically viable should have never been a tradeoff people had to make here, and Americans should all remember that when the next election rolls around.

The FEDERAL government didn't do anything. STATE and LOCAL governments did. Why should the federal government bail out states for their actions? And yeah I will remember all this during the next election. I was a Democrat all my life until early 2020 and now I'm done. I'll be voting against them from now on.

While overtly this fell on the state and local governments, I think it's probably safe to assume the party line came from the top of the party. Most of the governors and local officials are all just along for the ride themselves in the hopes of appeasing the party and maybe becoming president one day.

Re: Nearly 8M Americans have fallen into poverty since summer

#22

Post by OminousWeapons »

TheBlight wrote: post #15
OminousWeapons wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The blame for the situation lies squarely at the feet of the federal government. If you are going to shutter businesses and put people out of work, you need to pay the business owners and the employees who you have affected. Staying economically viable vs staying medically viable should have never been a tradeoff people had to make here, and Americans should all remember that when the next election rolls around.

But the federal government didn't shutter any businesses. You can thank the state governors, county officials and big city mayors for that.

My point is that the governors and mayors always had to weigh the economic damage they were doing to people whenever they made a shutdown decision, which resulted in erratic, complicated, and somewhat nonsensical shutdown orders. If the federal government had backstopped the economy properly and compensated any business or person directly affected by a shutdown, then the governors / mayors would have been able to take more coordinated, effective action. You can't maintain aggressive shutdowns if every day of your shutdown is destroying peoples' bank accounts.

Re: Nearly 8M Americans have fallen into poverty since summer

#24

Post by nradov »

powersnail wrote: post #18
save_ferris wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The fear of "looking poor" is so real in the US, which makes it harder to see who's struggling. It also creates this cognitive dissonance I've noticed here on HN where an article gets posted with pictures of the extended lines at food banks and people point out that most people seem to be driving relatively new cars, therefore why are they in line at a food bank? I think a lot of people don't understand how poverty r…

Another aspect is that selling used stuff doesn’t bring much money in, especially clothing. I don’t even know whether it’s sellable. Apart from my car, if I sell all my belongings, I might get one month worth of rent. Hardly seems worth it, unless there is a way to use that money to earn more money.

Charities barely even want used clothes donations any more. Only a few top designer labels have any significant resale value.

Re: Nearly 8M Americans have fallen into poverty since summer

#25

Post by TheBlight »

OminousWeapons wrote: post #22
TheBlight wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But the federal government didn't shutter any businesses. You can thank the state governors, county officials and big city mayors for that.

My point is that the governors and mayors always had to weigh the economic damage they were doing to people whenever they made a shutdown decision, which resulted in erratic, complicated, and somewhat nonsensical shutdown orders. If the federal government had backstopped the economy properly and compensated any business or person directly affected by a shutdown, then the governors / mayors would have been able to tak…

What in your view would've been more effective action? Do you not think enough businesses are closed or enough masks are being worn?

Re: Nearly 8M Americans have fallen into poverty since summer

#26

Post by hypervisorxxx »

Yeh in some cases. In others what is poverty.

Moving back in with your parents so not having an income but also not having to pay rent. Alot of people I know in NYC have just chosen not to pay rent and are not being evicted so they are living in poverty but in fancy areas of brooklyn and not having to work.

Poverty to me is being homeless despite working and your income doesn't or barely covers the bills.

In the covid case many have lost their income but they have also lost their responsibility to pay the bills.

I don't say this to be mean nor do I include restaurant owners who have to pay commercial rent while the doors are closed.

I say this about kids who moved into their parents second vacation homes but lost income on paper.

I feel bad for people who have lost their jobs and have to pay rent. Not so much for people who have lost their jobs and their requirement to pay bills.

Re: Nearly 8M Americans have fallen into poverty since summer

#27

Post by [deleted] »

just-juan-post wrote: post #16
OminousWeapons wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The blame for the situation lies squarely at the feet of the federal government. If you are going to shutter businesses and put people out of work, you need to pay the business owners and the employees who you have affected. Staying economically viable vs staying medically viable should have never been a tradeoff people had to make here, and Americans should all remember that when the next election rolls around.

The FEDERAL government didn't do anything. STATE and LOCAL governments did. Why should the federal government bail out states for their actions? And yeah I will remember all this during the next election. I was a Democrat all my life until early 2020 and now I'm done. I'll be voting against them from now on.

[deleted]

Re: Nearly 8M Americans have fallen into poverty since summer

#28

Post by nobody9999 »

datenhorst wrote: post #13
treeman79 wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Load of crap. Republicans were willing to negotiate on a smaller package. It was held up by the speaker because it made Trump look bad.

Source? I'd prefer a reputable one, if you please

> Source? I'd prefer a reputable one, if you please

Here you go[0]. Although it says the opposite of what GP claimed.

[0] https://www.axios.com/trump-coronavirus-stimulus-negotiation...

Re: Nearly 8M Americans have fallen into poverty since summer

#29

Post by purple_ferret »

Yet the rich get richer as Congress passes 'relief' plans that allow the wealthy to sneak massive chunks of cash directly into their pockets.

Here's just one example:

"According to the National Federation of Independent Business (NFIB), about 85% of all the approved Paycheck Protection Program (PPP) loans were for less than $150,000...The bipartisan bill holds the intention of automatically forgiving loans of less than $150,000." [1]

85% of so called 'paycheck protection' loans didn't/won't actually have to go to paying staff after all. Up to $22,000 per employee directly in the owner's pocket regardless of how the business was doing at all.

[1]https://www.solo401k.com/blog/news-ppp-forgiveness-for-loans...

Re: Nearly 8M Americans have fallen into poverty since summer

#30

Post by slg »

nradov wrote: post #17
OminousWeapons wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The blame for the situation lies squarely at the feet of the federal government. If you are going to shutter businesses and put people out of work, you need to pay the business owners and the employees who you have affected. Staying economically viable vs staying medically viable should have never been a tradeoff people had to make here, and Americans should all remember that when the next election rolls around.

The blame for the situation lies squarely at the feet of the state and local governments. The federal government didn't force any businesses to close. There is a huge variance between states in pandemic control measures. If businesses are still open in Florida then why should Floridians pay federal income taxes to subsidize closed businesses in California? And states do have options for funding relief at the state le…

>The blame for the situation lies squarely at the feet of the state and local governments. The federal government didn't force any businesses to close.

The state and local government had to act entirely because the federal government had no real plan. Someone is going to fill the decision making vacuum, but it is a problem when the people making the decisions don't have the financial power to make the right decision. The federal government is the only government in the US that had the power to pay people to stay home and experts were telling us that was the right decision 9 months ago.

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