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Bitcoin breaks above $20k

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Re: Bitcoin breaks above $20k

#231

Post by mantenpanther »

alex_young wrote: post #169

I see lots of comments suggesting that BTC is a constant store of value and that it is rising in USD terms because of ‘money printing’. If that was the case, wouldn’t we see inflation in USD prices for a basket of goods? Isn’t inflation very close to zero? Others say they are sick of talking about BTC price and would rather focus on its utility. This makes sense, but for the same reason above it cannot happen since o…

It' a possibility that inflation on cheap mass goods (like food nowadays) is unlikely to happen, instead most of the money could go into assets. This means inflation for rare things like stocks, quality housing, gold, bitcoin and expertise services (digital skills, craftmanship,...).

Of course, this would mean accelerated wealth concentration on a minority of people and be a challenge for society.

Re: Bitcoin breaks above $20k

#232

Post by leogiertz »

j0ba wrote: post #67
xiphias2 wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

US leadership was actively pushing for rolling back energy standards (that California was fighting for quite strongly). US has achieved a lot (especially Tesla) _despite_ the leadership working against it for a long time.

True. Unfortunately many still think a centrally planned system of picking winners and losers is superior to the free market, but luckily the past 4 years was enough to send capable entrepreneurs such as Elon Musk into the stratosphere (and beyond).

I don’t know, we all owe Germany quite a bit for their solar subsidies.

Re: Bitcoin breaks above $20k

#233

Post by federicobond »

ad404b8a372f2b9 wrote: post #166
_hdap wrote: post #15

I am NOT a fan of Bitcoin, but... Watch a real-time visualization of the global Bitcoin transaction flow, as it is happening right now: https://dailyblockchain.github.io/ Each square is a bitcoin address (like a cryptographic public key) Each graph component is a transaction. The components appear as transactions are broadcast into the bitcoin P2P network (but before they are verified and committed to the blockchain)…

It's almost always at least between 3 addresses, 1 green to 2 reds. Is it because exchanges take a percentage of each transaction?

Most transactions will have two outputs. One is the actual destination and the other is change that goes back to the spender wallet. There is nothing unusual going on here.

Re: Bitcoin breaks above $20k

#234

Post by silentsea90 »

alex_young wrote: post #169

I see lots of comments suggesting that BTC is a constant store of value and that it is rising in USD terms because of ‘money printing’. If that was the case, wouldn’t we see inflation in USD prices for a basket of goods? Isn’t inflation very close to zero? Others say they are sick of talking about BTC price and would rather focus on its utility. This makes sense, but for the same reason above it cannot happen since o…

Money printing causes asset inflation because it benefits the rich disproportionately. The rich invest and do not cause widespread commodities inflation. As is apparent, asset prices are sky high. Money printing in the US doesn't quite feed the poor if you've been paying attention. It goes to the corporations.

The primary manner asset inflation leaks into public exposure is higher rent, real estate prices v/s wages.

BTC market cap is still smaller than Google, Facebook etc. Wait until it reaches 10-100x market cap before volatility is significantly reduced.

Re: Bitcoin breaks above $20k

#235

Post by nwah1 »

varajelle wrote: post #80
nwah1 wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tether is still a scam, and the music is still playing. Don't be the last guy. As for lightning, it adds a layer of trust into a system whose reason for existence is trustlessness. If you don't care about trustlessness, you can already have fast and scalable transactions through normal banking.

> As for lightning, it adds a layer of trust into a system whose reason for existence is trustlessness. That's not true. That's the beauty of lightning, it manages to add a layer without needing to trust any of the intermediate party

For one, it uses onion routing, which means you are trusting that nodes are not colluding which each other to share information. In addition to the trusted watchtowers. If people start trusting the intermediate states of the payment channel then you could get into some really hairy territory in terms of trust.

Re: Bitcoin breaks above $20k

#236

Post by federicobond »

yters wrote: post #49
_hdap wrote: post #15

I am NOT a fan of Bitcoin, but... Watch a real-time visualization of the global Bitcoin transaction flow, as it is happening right now: https://dailyblockchain.github.io/ Each square is a bitcoin address (like a cryptographic public key) Each graph component is a transaction. The components appear as transactions are broadcast into the bitcoin P2P network (but before they are verified and committed to the blockchain)…

I see a number of transactions that pay out to a large number, or aggregate a large number. Not sure the meaning of the big graph components.

They are probably exchanges doing batch withdrawals (large number of outputs) or consolidating their holdings into a single large output for economic reasons (large number of inputs)

Re: Bitcoin breaks above $20k

#237

Post by slg »

silentsea90 wrote: post #219
slg wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Calling Bitcoin a "game of musical chairs" doesn't necessarily imply it is a scam. It simply implies that the music will eventually stop and leave someone with huge loses. There doesn't need to be a mastermind behind that. The length of time the music has been playing shouldn't be any solace to anyone participating if they can't come up with other legitimate reasons why a $20k value is valid.

There isn't a dearth of information online on why the value is valid. Can you present what you find unconvincing?

I'm not making any judgement one way or another on whether the value is valid. I am simply calling out a bad argument that supports that the value is valid.

The comment I originally replied was basically saying we know it has real value because people have valued it for a decade. That isn't a convincing reason.

Re: Bitcoin breaks above $20k

#238

Post by notJim »

jayd16 wrote: post #98
gruez wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Why is holding one Bitcoin appreciating so much faster compared to the USD? Is it because us as a society is perceiving the value of Bitcoin to appreciate (even though it’s illogical IMO to think so)? Same reason why asset (stocks, housing) prices have skyrocketed even though there's a pandemic going on: money printing.

This doesn't make any sense to me or at least doesn't answer the question "why bitcoin?" Gold doesn't have the same curve as BTC. Neither does pretty much anything else. Why has Bitcoin alone gone up 20% in the last month?

Better marketing?

Re: Bitcoin breaks above $20k

#239

Post by anonymousDan »

drcross wrote: post #186
Entwickler wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd suggest following ethereum and it's founder Vitalik. He's explicitly said things like, "If all that we accomplish is lambo memes and immature puns about "sharting", then I WILL leave. Though I still have a lot of hope that the community can steer in the right direction." He has worked with the UN world food program, and posts a lot of material on voting, economic fairness, and social aspects of blockchain in gene…

DAO rollback made them untrustable for me. You do you but a key required feature of my cryptocurrency should be sovereignty.

I hear this criticism a lot. And I don't disagree with it fundamentally, but I would be interested to hear how its advocates justify the decision. How do the Ethereum founders attempt to rebut it? Are there any good counterarguments?

Re: Bitcoin breaks above $20k

#240

Post by three_seagrass »

hiq wrote: post #202
three_seagrass wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A decade latter and it's still a hobby currency. Price is not a sole indicator of faith in a currency.

How do you distinguish a proper currency from a hobby currency? I can think of these criteria on the top of my head: * trading volume * number of shops where it's accepted * whether you can pay taxes with it Did you have something like that in mind? Or something else? What would lead you to say "this is not just a hobby currency anymore"?

If you want to get into semantics, a currency something that is generally accepted or in use, meaning used by many people and organizations.

For Bitcoin, transaction volume is not a good indicator of this because many of the trades (estimated >80%) these days are HFTs. Bitcoin is an asset for sure, but not a real currency.

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