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Facebook criticizes Apple’s iOS privacy changes with full-page newspaper ads

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Re: Facebook criticizes Apple’s iOS privacy changes with full-page newspaper ads

#151

Post by lock-free »

jkubicek wrote: post #100
ksec wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most of those business dont need a website. They only need one place ( cough centralised cough ) where their customer can easily find them, have all the relevant information, ( Email, Tele, Opening Time etc ), and a small space for newest update. Which could be special menu once in a while. And that is it. It is the same thing as most business dont need an App. And on the last point, you dont need a Facebook account…

> Most of those business dont need a website. They only need one place ( cough centralised cough ) where their customer can easily find them, have all the relevant information, ( Email, Tele, Opening Time etc ), and a small space for newest update. Which could be special menu once in a while. And that is it. It is the same thing as most business dont need an App. I feel like what you described is just a website. The…

> The "one place" to find businesses is your local search engine

What businesses want is to show you these things without your explicit desire to find them, which isn't the "one place" a search engine needs to be.

Re: Facebook criticizes Apple’s iOS privacy changes with full-page newspaper ads

#152

Post by JKCalhoun »

mdorazio wrote: post #107
kbos87 wrote: post #19

I have zero sympathy for Facebook. If they claim to care so much about small businesses, they should start by committing to change how they respond to any upstart social app that dares encroach on what they see as their territory. That being said - and it pains me to say this - but there is absolutely truth to the fact that the style of targeting now possible on FB & Instagram has enabled an entire world of very smal…

To me personally there's a faulty assumption baked into your comment that traditional advertising is needed for this interaction at all. For example, if I'm searching for a good dog leash I would much rather go looking for the best one that fits my needs based on reviews, community comments, maybe some YouTube impression videos, etc. rather than trust that the one thrust into my face via an ad is actually the best.

Exactly.

Why shop at all if we can just have a stream of door-to-door solicitors come to the front door of our homes with there wares and pitches? Something I think we can all get behind.

Re: Facebook criticizes Apple’s iOS privacy changes with full-page newspaper ads

#153

Post by datavirtue »

zepto wrote: post #86
barkerja wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There doesn't seem to be a good, evident third option just yet. I think a good middle ground here is an opt-out approach on Apple's end. Force the user to make a cognitive choice here with a clear understanding of what their choice means. Communication is key. Some users may very well appreciate and value the hyper-relevant advertisements they see on services, and remain opted-in to the sharing of tracking data. I…

That’s exactly what Apple is planning to implement, and what Facebook opposes. When given a choice, 70% of people opt-out. This is terrifying to Facebook.

Yeah, the Apple users opt out making it easier for everyone else to do so. Facebook is on shakey ground.

Re: Facebook criticizes Apple’s iOS privacy changes with full-page newspaper ads

#154

Post by yunohn »

JKCalhoun wrote: post #150
yunohn wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel like you’ve misinterpreted OP. Even after they explained themselves with clear disclaimers. They meant that online ads have enabled small businesses to target niche clientele and make cool things, without burning money competing for adspace with everyone else. This is absolutely true, you can ask lots of people, including tech nerds on HN who buy off Instagram ads.

> They meant that online ads have enabled small businesses to target niche clientele and make cool things I feel they did acknowledge this. But added that this doesn't justify privacy invasion on a massive scale - something your not countering.

> business model depends entirely on the invasion and flagrant abuse of privacy

OP’s acknowledgment is not entirely valid - their business models don’t rely on ads per se. Rather the nature of capital and free markets leads to them being snuffed out by bigger ones.

Re: Facebook criticizes Apple’s iOS privacy changes with full-page newspaper ads

#155

Post by wcarron »

yunohn wrote: post #154
JKCalhoun wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They meant that online ads have enabled small businesses to target niche clientele and make cool things I feel they did acknowledge this. But added that this doesn't justify privacy invasion on a massive scale - something your not countering.

> business model depends entirely on the invasion and flagrant abuse of privacy OP’s acknowledgment is not entirely valid - their business models don’t rely on ads per se. Rather the nature of capital and free markets leads to them being snuffed out by bigger ones.

> OP’s acknowledgment is not entirely valid - their business models don’t rely on ads per se. Rather the nature of capital and free markets leads to them being snuffed out by bigger ones.

As the OP, I would argue against this. I don't fully understand what you mean by the 'nature of capital and free markets' unless that's just a fancy term for 'the rich get richer'.

Let's take... idk a knitting business for example. A single entreprenuer knits and sells hats. In no way, shape, or form, does successfully selling knit items require tracking people from all over the nation/state/city, and all the small personal details of their lives, in order to sell them hats.

This is not to say advertising is not essential/important. But there are many options: A) cold-calls B) networking your friends/family C) print and post flyers D) Post on your personal/business social media accts E) have your own website F) Rent a billboard G) pay for space in magazines/newspapers H) try in-person sales, and so on and so forth.

This winner-take-all mentality is bizarre. Just because carhartt, for example, will always sell more hats than "Nina Knitter Co." doesn't mean she can't run a successful business.

Running a successful small business has never and will never require invading the privacy of your potential customers. Anyone who tells you otherwise is a morally bankrupt POS.

Edit: To better address the quoted text: These businesses DO rely on ads, and that is entirely of their own making and their unwillingness to choose other avenues of growth/advertising that are not exploitatative on such a massive scale. AND, if they have explored those options and found that it is not profitable to do so, then they are complicit in the theft and violation of privacy.

Re: Facebook criticizes Apple’s iOS privacy changes with full-page newspaper ads

#156

Post by [deleted] »

newbie578 wrote: post #117
soupson wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Facebook doesn’t sell your data, they sell your future behavior. Being identified the advertisers hasn’t been the point for years. Facebook knows that, so they make a righteous play by saying they keep it safe from advertisers. Facebook doesn’t sell your data, they sell your attention, and that’s much more valuable.

What does that even mean?

[deleted]

Re: Facebook criticizes Apple’s iOS privacy changes with full-page newspaper ads

#159

Post by OzCrimson »

CubsFan1060 wrote: post #60
CubsFan1060 wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm sure there are a lot of businesses that can exist by knowing everything about me. And, frankly, I think it's ok if they do... as long as they have my permission. The nice thing is that this is what this change does. It makes it more clear who, and what, is sharing information about me. A world where we have apps and websites that pop up with an alert "This website will share information about you with Facebook, e…

Ugh. The more I think about this the more complicated it becomes. I think most people would be pretty ok saying "I'm a part of a classic car community on Facebook, so I get ads on Facebook for classic car things". I think people would be less ok with "I played a game on my phone while standing in an auto shop. Now I'm getting car ads on my news site because game accessed my location, shared with facebook, who then sh…

I agree with you about the 2 scenarios.

My concern, though, isn't about potentially pages and pages of explanations. It's more about the fact that I spend time opting out of that kind of stuff and some how still get the ad just because I was standing in an auto shop.

I've got a pi-hole on my home network, I've opted out of personalized ads on every site that gives me the option. I try to make it clear, "leave me alone."

But still I get ads that tell me I'm not being left alone.

The problem is these tools we're given to opt out, and we learn that they don't work; and a feeling that everyone in the world except marketers have to seek explicit consent.

Re: Facebook criticizes Apple’s iOS privacy changes with full-page newspaper ads

#160

Post by OzCrimson »

ChuckNorris89 wrote: post #25
kbos87 wrote: post #19

I have zero sympathy for Facebook. If they claim to care so much about small businesses, they should start by committing to change how they respond to any upstart social app that dares encroach on what they see as their territory. That being said - and it pains me to say this - but there is absolutely truth to the fact that the style of targeting now possible on FB & Instagram has enabled an entire world of very smal…

To play the devil's advocate, most small business in my area of Europe(bars, cafes, bands, jazz/rock halls, shops, restaurants and even dentists) rely on Facebook for reaching out to their customers or audience, organizing and advertising events and even for customer support via Facebook Messenger to the point where their Facebook page has replaced their main website as it's more alive since it's easier for their sta…

This is very different from the slimy tactics around our privacy and data.
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