Bitcoin breaks above $20k • Hacker News Board

Re: Bitcoin breaks above $20k

#81

Post by JoshTko » Wed, Dec 16, 2020, 5:07 PM UTC

tempsy wrote: post #72

isuckatcoding wrote: post #48

But why...? > When this [rally to near $20,000] happened in 2017, there was a real lack of products for the new converts to experience, whereas today there are endless uses, protocols, services across farming, lending, standard trading, etc Is this really true though? My first instinct isn’t at all to go to blockchain/cryptocurrency for farming.

i don’t think it has anything to do with more use cases institutions are now buying bitcoin as a diversified asset class

This is the single most important use case that most people miss. Bitcoin doesn't need to do anything else.

Re: Bitcoin breaks above $20k

#82

Post by arez » Wed, Dec 16, 2020, 5:07 PM UTC

csomar wrote: post #54

albntomat0 wrote: post #3

What's the current thoughts on Tether, and how its speculated potential collapse will affect the rest of the ecosystem? Also, what's the latest on scaling? The last time I looked into it, Lightening was a thing, but I don't follow it closely.

My understanding as someone who trades these markets is that Tether issues has been addressed, although not transparently. We still don't know how the money moves around, and a big portion of its market cap is probably not used for trading bitcoin. They still have the risk of the government clamping down on them but I could hardly see it affecting bitcoin. Maybe a 5-10% price suppression at most.

how are they addressed? You don't know if it's 1:1 backed, if you don't know that it can collapse any moment

Re: Bitcoin breaks above $20k

#83

Post by AntiImperialist » Wed, Dec 16, 2020, 5:07 PM UTC

syntaxing wrote: post #50

The appreciation and depreciation of Bitcoin is one of the things I don’t really understand. I get currency, capital flow, and asset to capital conversions. But for Bitcoin, where exactly is the value? Why is holding one Bitcoin appreciating so much faster compared to the USD? Is it because us as a society is perceiving the value of Bitcoin to appreciate (even though it’s illogical IMO to think so)?

It's the same reason why stocks of companies go up and down: perceived value.

Re: Bitcoin breaks above $20k

#84

Post by feanaro » Wed, Dec 16, 2020, 5:07 PM UTC

syntaxing wrote: post #50

The appreciation and depreciation of Bitcoin is one of the things I don’t really understand. I get currency, capital flow, and asset to capital conversions. But for Bitcoin, where exactly is the value? Why is holding one Bitcoin appreciating so much faster compared to the USD? Is it because us as a society is perceiving the value of Bitcoin to appreciate (even though it’s illogical IMO to think so)?

Yes, and perhaps it isn't so illogical.

Re: Bitcoin breaks above $20k

#85

Post by imaginenore » Wed, Dec 16, 2020, 5:08 PM UTC

isuckatcoding wrote: post #48

But why...? > When this [rally to near $20,000] happened in 2017, there was a real lack of products for the new converts to experience, whereas today there are endless uses, protocols, services across farming, lending, standard trading, etc Is this really true though? My first instinct isn’t at all to go to blockchain/cryptocurrency for farming.

Why? Because huge companies started investing huge amounts of money in it. Greyscale, MicroStrategy, JP Morgan, etc.

Also more and more people recognize that it's better to store money in a deflationary currency, not in your USD or EUR, which are regularly printed in huge amounts and are guaranteed to lose purchasing power long-term.

Re: Bitcoin breaks above $20k

#86

Post by johnpaulkiser » Wed, Dec 16, 2020, 5:08 PM UTC

baron_harkonnen wrote: post #43

silentsea90 wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How long does the "game of musical chairs" have to go on before you consider the possibility that this isn't one? It has been a decade since BTC was launched.

I'll consider that this isn't a game of musical chairs as soon as a non-trivial amount of BTC is used for anything other than speculation. We've been in a massive credit bubble for well over a decade, we saw it wiggle a bit in 2008, but we're still deep in it. Just because these insane illusions are able to maintain themselves for absurdly long periods of time doesn't make them real. What we've seen is capital desper…

With the news around PH not accepting credit cards anymore I'm curious to see how much revenue they generate through bitcoin in the next quarter. I imagine their revenue will drop substantially.

Re: Bitcoin breaks above $20k

#87

Post by arithma » Wed, Dec 16, 2020, 5:09 PM UTC

Just a question, isn't all criticism against bitcoin applicable to gold?

Money/Currency/Value in general can't be reduced or derived from first principles. You always have to take into account human nature, economic activity, and most unfortunately: psychology. So all criticism about how bitcoin inherently being pointless, sounds like off-tune. I want good reasons to/NOT-to buy in.

First-world country citizens kind of trust their governments to at least behave lawfully, or at least be eventually accountable. There are systems in place for transactions and accounting, and "everyone" has access.

The "Value" of bitcoin, coming from a struggling third-world country (Lebanon), is in the ability to be independent of a currency that is inflating quickly, being able to transact with the outside world (even if only in bulk) without being under the mercy of a failing financial system that is lurking around to take a share in every which way possible.

The energy consumption needs of bitcoin are an obvious drawback. But I don't think it's fair to brush away the whole thing for only that reason.

Disclosure: I own an embarrassingly small amount of bitcoin (~0.4BTC).

Re: Bitcoin breaks above $20k

#88

Post by josh_carterPDX » Wed, Dec 16, 2020, 5:09 PM UTC

isuckatcoding wrote: post #48

But why...? > When this [rally to near $20,000] happened in 2017, there was a real lack of products for the new converts to experience, whereas today there are endless uses, protocols, services across farming, lending, standard trading, etc Is this really true though? My first instinct isn’t at all to go to blockchain/cryptocurrency for farming.

The main difference is that the feds as well as other mainstream institutions are beginning to buy cryptocurrencies. That didn't happen in 2017. There are a number of analysts that are predicting it will get much higher than $20,000 because many governments are trying to print their way out of trouble.

Re: Bitcoin breaks above $20k

#89

Post by olalonde » Wed, Dec 16, 2020, 5:09 PM UTC

syntaxing wrote: post #50

The appreciation and depreciation of Bitcoin is one of the things I don’t really understand. I get currency, capital flow, and asset to capital conversions. But for Bitcoin, where exactly is the value? Why is holding one Bitcoin appreciating so much faster compared to the USD? Is it because us as a society is perceiving the value of Bitcoin to appreciate (even though it’s illogical IMO to think so)?

It's largely a collective delusion, it has value because people believe it has value. Fiat currencies and gold are arguably in that same category.

Re: Bitcoin breaks above $20k

#90

Post by mrlala » Wed, Dec 16, 2020, 5:10 PM UTC

JoshTko wrote: post #81

tempsy wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

i don’t think it has anything to do with more use cases institutions are now buying bitcoin as a diversified asset class

This is the single most important use case that most people miss. Bitcoin doesn't need to do anything else.

Sigh.

I 100% understand what you are saying but I also 100% disagree with it.

This is all greed with no substance. Wealthy people and those who desire to be wealthy are doing everything they can to arbitrarily prop up something which does not really have value. And they seem to be winning- which is everything that is wrong with the world right now.