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Bitcoin breaks above $20k

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Re: Bitcoin breaks above $20k

#71

Post by csomar »

boh wrote: post #9

The real test is if this is still true by mid-Jan. The 2017-18 peak had a similar trajectory--Oct to Dec spike then fell by Jan--suggesting some weird tax related activity. I'm curious to see if things play out the same way.

It's still very early if you are comparing this to the 2017 bubble. Bitcoin moved from the old all-time high to around x20 higher. That would put bitcoin price around $400.000. A really frightening amount of money has to be moved into the ecosystem to make bitcoin worth that much.

Re: Bitcoin breaks above $20k

#72

Post by tempsy »

isuckatcoding wrote: post #48

But why...? > When this [rally to near $20,000] happened in 2017, there was a real lack of products for the new converts to experience, whereas today there are endless uses, protocols, services across farming, lending, standard trading, etc Is this really true though? My first instinct isn’t at all to go to blockchain/cryptocurrency for farming.

i don’t think it has anything to do with more use cases

institutions are now buying bitcoin as a diversified asset class

Re: Bitcoin breaks above $20k

#73

Post by yrral »

tectonic wrote: post #2

What's the carbon footprint of BTC like these days? Has any progress been made on mitigating this fundamental design issue?

Back in the days where all our electricity came from fossil fuels, I completely agree that marginal electricity usage was bad for the environment. However I think that thought has persisted with us even though it is no longer true 100% of the time.

With renewables sometimes the marginal cost of electricity to our environment is near 0 or even negative (eg, during periods of higher winds and lower demand.)

I predict that in the future as bitcoin mining becomes more and more of an efficiency game that you will see bitcoin mining be kind of a load balancer the grid, effectively turning off during peak demand (or low supply) times and contributing to the base load during regular times.

For example, it may even help the economics of building new wind plants. Eg, currently it may not be profitable to build a new wind plant because base load is too low that the excess power generated would need to be sold off at 0 or even negative prices. However if bitcoin mining could be turned on during these times and off during periods of high demand, there will need to be fewer peaker plants in operation and it would positively affect the economics of opening a new wind plant.

Bitcoin mining only cares about the cost of electricity at a given time, it is not like most other electricity demands that are very time based. With the large variance of electricity generation by renewables, I think bitcoin can in the future help smooth demand according to the real supply/demand curve.

It's kind of like a different implementation of the Tesla utility grid batteries. Instead of deploying power, you force the grid to build more renewable capacity (that the miners are paying for) that you use except in peak periods, where you turn off and effectively provide the grid with more power.

Re: Bitcoin breaks above $20k

#74

Post by [deleted] »

syntaxing wrote: post #50

The appreciation and depreciation of Bitcoin is one of the things I don’t really understand. I get currency, capital flow, and asset to capital conversions. But for Bitcoin, where exactly is the value? Why is holding one Bitcoin appreciating so much faster compared to the USD? Is it because us as a society is perceiving the value of Bitcoin to appreciate (even though it’s illogical IMO to think so)?

[deleted]

Re: Bitcoin breaks above $20k

#75

Post by vmception »

syntaxing wrote: post #50

The appreciation and depreciation of Bitcoin is one of the things I don’t really understand. I get currency, capital flow, and asset to capital conversions. But for Bitcoin, where exactly is the value? Why is holding one Bitcoin appreciating so much faster compared to the USD? Is it because us as a society is perceiving the value of Bitcoin to appreciate (even though it’s illogical IMO to think so)?

The -coin and -currency terminology are skeumorphs. these assets have nothing to do with currency while they absolutely do inherit the transfer mechanics like a currency. they inherit some aspect of every asset class that has ever existed while having none of the limitations of any one asset class. Any limitation they do have now can be addressed in a software update.

That's a new feature across asset classes, and some market participants value that. Given the limited supply, there can be supply shocks as ore market participants value its attributes.

Re: Bitcoin breaks above $20k

#76

Post by [deleted] »

syntaxing wrote: post #50

The appreciation and depreciation of Bitcoin is one of the things I don’t really understand. I get currency, capital flow, and asset to capital conversions. But for Bitcoin, where exactly is the value? Why is holding one Bitcoin appreciating so much faster compared to the USD? Is it because us as a society is perceiving the value of Bitcoin to appreciate (even though it’s illogical IMO to think so)?

[deleted]

Re: Bitcoin breaks above $20k

#77

Post by garethrowlands »

ur-whale wrote: post #26
marta_morena_91 wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But it's really not. Bitcoin isn't anything special. If there were any real-world use cases for it (which there don't seem to be), this would have been done long ago or would have been done organically. As it stands, interest in bitcoin was largely null, until people realized that it's a great investment opportunity where everybody can get rich (tulips, anyone?)... The rest is history. Now alt coins were popping up l…

> 1. There is no use case for crypto currencies, except fraud and crime. So you have found a way to protect your wealth against inflation, I guess? Would love to hear what that is.

The rich tend to get richer, with or without BTC's help.

Re: Bitcoin breaks above $20k

#79

Post by paulgb »

ttul wrote: post #40
nwah1 wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tether is still a scam, and the music is still playing. Don't be the last guy. As for lightning, it adds a layer of trust into a system whose reason for existence is trustlessness. If you don't care about trustlessness, you can already have fast and scalable transactions through normal banking.

One day, when Tether finally breaks, books will be written, trying to explain how something so plainly fraudulent was able to persist for so long. The game theory behind its persistence is fascinating: only the last guy in stands to lose anything, so each transaction moved through Tether is basically pricing in a tiny chance of collapse.

I suspect that in retrospect it will seem obvious that a USD-equivalent that is effectively out of US jurisdiction (for the time being) will be seen as providing obvious value to money launderers and criminals, and that the counterparty risk they take is a small price to pay.

Re: Bitcoin breaks above $20k

#80

Post by varajelle »

nwah1 wrote: post #30
albntomat0 wrote: post #3

What's the current thoughts on Tether, and how its speculated potential collapse will affect the rest of the ecosystem? Also, what's the latest on scaling? The last time I looked into it, Lightening was a thing, but I don't follow it closely.

Tether is still a scam, and the music is still playing. Don't be the last guy. As for lightning, it adds a layer of trust into a system whose reason for existence is trustlessness. If you don't care about trustlessness, you can already have fast and scalable transactions through normal banking.

> As for lightning, it adds a layer of trust into a system whose reason for existence is trustlessness.

That's not true. That's the beauty of lightning, it manages to add a layer without needing to trust any of the intermediate party

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