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Bitcoin breaks above $20k

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51–60 of 473 posts

Re: Bitcoin breaks above $20k

#51
post #30

What's the current thoughts on Tether, and how its speculated potential collapse will affect the rest of the ecosystem? Also, what's the latest on scaling? The last time I looked into it, Lightening was a thing, but I don't follow it closely.

Tether is still a scam, and the music is still playing. Don't be the last guy. As for lightning, it adds a layer of trust into a system whose reason for existence is trustlessness. If you don't care about trustlessness, you can already have fast and scalable transactions through normal banking.

What do you mean by layer of trust? Bitcoin is definitely not "trustless" its trust minimized for sure. Lightning also minimizes trust in a very similar way. As a user you don't have to make any more assumptions when using lightning than you do already using the bitcoin base layer.

Re: Bitcoin breaks above $20k

#52
post #5

Bitcoin is a pure computer-science phenomenon. Regardless of whether you personally feel this is a good or bad investment, I think the magnitude of this success over such a short time frame, the impact on the world, and the interest it and the wider crypto ecosystem receives from the non-tech world, is absolutely stunning. HN should accept that Bitcoin is an achievement of massive proportions.

But it's really not. Bitcoin isn't anything special. If there were any real-world use cases for it (which there don't seem to be), this would have been done long ago or would have been done organically. As it stands, interest in bitcoin was largely null, until people realized that it's a great investment opportunity where everybody can get rich (tulips, anyone?)... The rest is history. Now alt coins were popping up l…

You're right about the economics of it, but I think seibelj is discussing something else.

To give a goofy analogy: if it turned out that space travel was mostly gimmicky and used to cheat people, that would not undo the great technical achievement that it is.

Crypto is one of those things that no one saw coming. I dont think most people--even rather technical and well read--even considered such an idea prior to 2007.

Re: Bitcoin breaks above $20k

#53

The appreciation and depreciation of Bitcoin is one of the things I don’t really understand. I get currency, capital flow, and asset to capital conversions. But for Bitcoin, where exactly is the value? Why is holding one Bitcoin appreciating so much faster compared to the USD? Is it because us as a society is perceiving the value of Bitcoin to appreciate (even though it’s illogical IMO to think so)?

The value of bitcoin doesn't need to increase in absolute terms for its USD value to increase.

Re: Bitcoin breaks above $20k

#54

What's the current thoughts on Tether, and how its speculated potential collapse will affect the rest of the ecosystem? Also, what's the latest on scaling? The last time I looked into it, Lightening was a thing, but I don't follow it closely.

My understanding as someone who trades these markets is that Tether issues has been addressed, although not transparently. We still don't know how the money moves around, and a big portion of its market cap is probably not used for trading bitcoin.

They still have the risk of the government clamping down on them but I could hardly see it affecting bitcoin. Maybe a 5-10% price suppression at most.

Re: Bitcoin breaks above $20k

#55
post #2

What's the carbon footprint of BTC like these days? Has any progress been made on mitigating this fundamental design issue?

I don't know what the carbon footprint is, but Cambridge University estimates the annualised consumption at the moment to be 87.02 TWh.

https://cbeci.org/

Re: Bitcoin breaks above $20k

#56
post #2

What's the carbon footprint of BTC like these days? Has any progress been made on mitigating this fundamental design issue?

Bitcoin can actually be used to aid growth in rewewables and mitigate carbon emissions. A couple examples: (1) "bitcoin batteries" which can be a reliable consumer of renewable energy during otherwise low-demand periods and (2) replacing natural gas flaring with bitcoin mines.

https://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/layer1-launches-bit...

https://www.crusoeenergy.com/news-and-media/2020/1/10/denver...

Re: Bitcoin breaks above $20k

#57
post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think GP is saying that the energy can come from non-carbon-emitting sources, which is technically true but besides the point. Bitcoin mining currently incentivizes tremendous carbon emissions, higher per dollar than other forms of money.

Except that this isn’t true. Bitcoin currently uses 80-90% renewable sources or opportunistic power capture, which is effectively zero-carbon. The incentives of bitcoin mining drive this, since carbon-neutral energy sources have lower marginal costs.

Here’s a recent study from Cambridge that puts it at 39%. The studies I’ve seen with higher numbers always seem to be funded by firms involved in crypto trading.

https://www.jbs.cam.ac.uk/faculty-research/centres/alternati...

Re: Bitcoin breaks above $20k

#58
post #2

What's the carbon footprint of BTC like these days? Has any progress been made on mitigating this fundamental design issue?

The entire point of Bitcoin is that you irreversibly give up something you value in exchange for creating a Bitcoin in return.

The Bitcoin now stands for that lost value, and there is now a corresponding psychological motive to replace the valuable thing that was lost (electricity, and all that goes with it including environmental impact) by mentally investing that loss in the Bitcoin token. So you protect it, you support the network that it exists within, you talk it up to your social circle, you do everything you can to make it as valuable to others as it is to you. All of these activities also take time and resources, aggravating the impact of the original loss commitment. You do this because someday you want to give it to someone else, whom you've convinced of its worth, in order for them give you back the value you lost by creating it.

There is no "environmental mitigation" for Bitcoin's energy use, this behavior (or a permutation of it in term of other forms of irreversibly burned value, like time* ) is an essential property of cryptocurrency, without which it would cease to exist.

Disclaimer I hold Bitcoin, not because I think it is a new form of money or "decentralized" in any way that matters (quite the opposite in fact), but because it is possibly the most clever and subtle ruse to access the gambling instinct in a demographic whose constituents commonly believe themselves to be "above" playing the lottery or falling for Ponzi schemes. Yes, the irony is not lost on me. Still, this is a huge untapped market.

* also a bit of a dodge as IIRC POS still requires keeping a machine running even if it's not dedicating all cycles to the staking algo. Anything that "recovers value" from the process of "burning value" defeats the entire purpose of burning value to create psychological motivation to mentally allocate it to the token it replaces.

Which, incidentally, is why you won't see much growth from cryptos that try to do something "useful" (like fold proteins) while also standing as a counter for burned value. If running the algo is more useful for A, because A is in a position to monetize the work outside the currency being created, than it is for B, who can't use the data or results from the work algo, why would B prefer to support that crypto over another whose work algo is equally useless for all?

Re: Bitcoin breaks above $20k

#59

What's the current thoughts on Tether, and how its speculated potential collapse will affect the rest of the ecosystem? Also, what's the latest on scaling? The last time I looked into it, Lightening was a thing, but I don't follow it closely.

Ignore the tether fud, old news. Lots of stable coins out there now that are fully regulated and partnering with US government (USDC).

Tether's market cap is the largest of all the stable coins and it's unclear that Tether's liabilities are sufficiently collateralised and they can't/won't prove that they are. That's a problem for a product where the unique selling point is "stability".

I've been in the Bitcoin/crypto space since 2009 and been through it all. My opinion now is that Bitcoin is an accidental Ponzi scheme - it started out with good intentions but got hijacked by tw*ts. Most of the discourse in the crypto community now looks like a carbon copy of any spread betting / gambling / day trading community. However, instead of a centralised market, there is a Rube Goldberg machine that provides the market infrastructure.

Re: Bitcoin breaks above $20k

#60

But why...? > When this [rally to near $20,000] happened in 2017, there was a real lack of products for the new converts to experience, whereas today there are endless uses, protocols, services across farming, lending, standard trading, etc Is this really true though? My first instinct isn’t at all to go to blockchain/cryptocurrency for farming.

they are referring to yield farming. people earn interest by putting their assets up as liquidity. making the markets deeper. this is one of the things that banks do with customer deposits except now there is no bank.

anyway, it makes digital assets and cryptocurrencies yield producing instruments and it is predictably popular.

along side that there is a fast growing autonomous insurance sector too.

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