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To the brain, reading computer code is not the same as reading language

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Re: To the brain, reading computer code is not the same as reading language

#111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ditto! I can also listen to a podcast or have a video playing in the background and still write code. Definitely can’t do that when trying to write English.

Listening to music with lyrics is already hard for me when I'm writing code, but listening to a podcast is unthinkable--what kind of podcast? Don't you get distracted by the people talking?

I've tried to listen to podcasts while coding but when I'm in the zone I don't retain the content. I can't follow the podcast at all.

Yet, like the OP here, I can also sing along with music and code at the same time.

Re: To the brain, reading computer code is not the same as reading language

#112

It's only briefly mentioned, but learning to read music is quite similar in terms of brain function to learning programming. It's symbolic, logical and structured. My university went so far as to allow students with a bachelor's degree in music to directly enter the computer science master's program.

The one thing I think is different about reading music is sight-reading, where you're reading it at speed while playing it. I can do that with music and text, but not computer code, even in a language that I'm super familiar with.

I can read a screen-full of code at time -- sort of like speed reading -- in most of the programming languages that I know.

It took me a while to realize that I was doing this; I only figured it out from when it doesn't work. I can't do it when I'm looking at code that's dark-themed if I normally work with that code light-themed. In that case I have to read the code line by line. It's actually a strange feeling.

Some of my environments are dark themed for certain languages/environments so it's not the dark-theme itself that throws me off but something about the unexpected visual difference.

Re: To the brain, reading computer code is not the same as reading language

#113
post #28

As someone who is fluently bilingual and speaks a third language and is also proficient or better in a half dozen programming languages along with having written code in many more, this is completely obvious to me. Learning a programming language is much closer to learning a complex board game than it is a natural language.

I feel exactly the same, I've been learning a second language and it's nothing like learning programming, in fact arguably the opposite, I've found that obsessing over grammar is almost detrimental to making progress with a new language. The confident students who aren't concerned with getting all the specifics of grammar exactly perfect are the ones that are making the most progress toward being conversational, they…

>The confident students who aren't concerned with getting all the specifics of grammar exactly perfect are the ones that are making the most progress toward being conversational

One of my Danish teachers said that the move towards making people conversational is a fairly recent invention, and approximately a century ago (my memory is spotty on when the change happened) teaching was more geared towards making people literate in the new language.

Re: To the brain, reading computer code is not the same as reading language

#114
post #28

As someone who is fluently bilingual and speaks a third language and is also proficient or better in a half dozen programming languages along with having written code in many more, this is completely obvious to me. Learning a programming language is much closer to learning a complex board game than it is a natural language.

I would say, however, that designing software uses similar mental processes to translating text from one language to another.

You take ideas in one form and express them in terms idiomatic to the other.

Re: To the brain, reading computer code is not the same as reading language

#116
post #28

As someone who is fluently bilingual and speaks a third language and is also proficient or better in a half dozen programming languages along with having written code in many more, this is completely obvious to me. Learning a programming language is much closer to learning a complex board game than it is a natural language.

I feel exactly the same, I've been learning a second language and it's nothing like learning programming, in fact arguably the opposite, I've found that obsessing over grammar is almost detrimental to making progress with a new language. The confident students who aren't concerned with getting all the specifics of grammar exactly perfect are the ones that are making the most progress toward being conversational, they…

Weirdly I make the same observation as you about second languages and detail in grammar, but I came to the opposite conclusion. I thought natural language and computer language were pretty similar.

One issue in the study is what a reasonable comparison is. Our ancestors would have talked about "there is a lion over there" and such mundane things all the time, so we shouldn't be surprised if we're just "nexting" those kinds of things with a specialized circuit.

Obviously that doesn't exist for coding, but the question is whether there is natural language that can't be nexted. I'm thinking of James Joyce's Ulysees or Shakespeare type stuff. It's weird even for the native reader. Does that activate the math network?

Also, isn't that a better analogy for how you program machines? You're telling the computer what to do in a language that isn't assembler, and doesn't have the same machine model as your coding language, with a heavy dependence on shorthands established only in the context you created (by writing functions, classes, etc). I thought the reason why a lot of people find it hard to read code is because you're inherently doing something awkward, translation.

I've been learning a new language as well, with the wrinkle that it's quite closely related to one I already speak. Mandarin is lovely, it makes me wonder why there are languages where the verbs and nouns are changed. It also means you can jump into saying useful things pretty fast, you are just restricted by vocabulary. WRT coding, this is similar. Coding languages tend to have very few things you must know (except C++ lol) to get started, but with a lot of reading libs necessary to do anything in a given domain.

Re: To the brain, reading computer code is not the same as reading language

#117
post #28

As someone who is fluently bilingual and speaks a third language and is also proficient or better in a half dozen programming languages along with having written code in many more, this is completely obvious to me. Learning a programming language is much closer to learning a complex board game than it is a natural language.

I think because the term "language" is used in both places people carry over preconceptions from one to the other.

Sort of like computer viruses and biological viruses.

Re: To the brain, reading computer code is not the same as reading language

#118
As someone who has over 15 years of coding experience with many different programming languages, I'm not surprised to learn that coding uses many different parts of the brain.

I've noticed that people become more logical in all aspects of their thinking as their programming skills improve. Also, I've noticed that a lot of religious people become atheist or agnostic as their programming skills improve.

It trains you to become good at holding a lot of information in your head and being aware of how they relate to each other and how they conflict.

When it comes to coding, I prefer dynamically typed languages because they don't have any constraints and that makes them more effective at training your brain because you can't outsource or put a boundary on any part of your thinking.

Re: To the brain, reading computer code is not the same as reading language

#120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ditto! I can also listen to a podcast or have a video playing in the background and still write code. Definitely can’t do that when trying to write English.

Listening to music with lyrics is already hard for me when I'm writing code, but listening to a podcast is unthinkable--what kind of podcast? Don't you get distracted by the people talking?

Much like the other comment - I can't really listen to music while learning to code, but if it's something I alredy know how to do then music sometimes seems to be helping.
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