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Fleeing New Yorkers resulted in an estimated $34B in lost income – study

reuters.com

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Re: Fleeing New Yorkers resulted in an estimated $34B in lost income – study

#81

Post by pen2l »

ajsnigrutin wrote: post #38

Louis Rossman said it in many of his recent videos.... new york has everything, but also costs alot. You have cinemas, broadway, restaurants, everything.... and you pay for that privilige. Now, when all that is closed, you have only the "bad" parts (the homeless, crime, noise, bad smells... all that with a "premium price")... so, why stay? Poor people have no jobs, have to move out.... rich people don't have anything…

Not knocking on you here, just really genuinely confused why you’d cite Louis Rossman of all people on earth for his thoughts on places to live. But maybe I’m not in on something here?

Re: Fleeing New Yorkers resulted in an estimated $34B in lost income – study

#82

Post by abernard1 »

foota wrote: post #56
criddell wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does it cost more per capita to run NYC than it does smaller cities like Austin?

Maybe not to run, but the capital investment is probably higher. As well as things like subways, which there isn't one of in Austin.

Education, healthcare, and public employees are almost always the largest expenses.

For instance, in CA, only about $100M a year out of the $100 billion a year budget is spent on transportation [1].

Because of prop 98 in CA, a minimum of 40% of the budget has to go to education [2].

In NY, it's only 4% spent on transportation [3].

[1] https://ballotpedia.org/Fact_check/California%27s_state_budg...

[2] https://ballotpedia.org/California_Proposition_98,_Mandatory...

[3] https://openbudget.ny.gov/overview.html

Re: Fleeing New Yorkers resulted in an estimated $34B in lost income – study

#83

Post by throwaway2245 »

CydeWeys wrote: post #66
ruddct wrote: post #48

> About 3.57 million people left New York City this year between Jan. 1 and Dec. 7, according to Unacast, which analyzed anonymized cell phone location data. Some 3.5 million people earning lower average incomes moved into the city during that same period, the report showed. Uhhh I'd take this with a HEAVY grain of salt, given that it's based off of anonymized cell phone location data. Were this true, 40% of NYC's po…

It's absolute nonsense from my anecdotal experience here in NYC as well. I don't even see how it's remotely possible for a full 40% of NYC's population to have turned over in the span of 9 months. New lease signings are down , not up many hundreds of percentage points! Every single thing that would have to be true for this to be true as well, isn't. It's bad methodology from one company trying to get its name in the…

> Go look at the voter rolls

I used to do this, and can report the area of London that I lived in turned over 25% of its (voting) residents in a typical 12 month period: that is, before coronavirus time! They may have relocated within London, of course. I assume that New York City is comparable in this respect.

Further assumptions: People not vote-registered are likely to turn over even quicker than that. People who you know personally are more likely to be settled and therefore less likely to move out, just by statistical virtue of having any such personal connection - your anecdotal data will be extremely biased by this.

Re: Fleeing New Yorkers resulted in an estimated $34B in lost income – study

#84

Post by gnusty_gnurc »

EdwardDiego wrote: post #72
gnusty_gnurc wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Precisely - if cities with overwhelmingly progressive constituencies can't get their own house in order - what's the chance that a country will be different?

/me looks at the USA I don't think the overwhelmingly... regressive? conservative government you've been running has done overly well either.

The federal government is conservative?

Best measure of the size of government is budget, and conservatism values small government. There is nothing conservative about a staggering rise in the spending of federal government.

Neither are any of the procedural changes to congress, lack of deliberation or expansion of the powers of the executive branch.

Re: Fleeing New Yorkers resulted in an estimated $34B in lost income – study

#85

Post by pc86 »

ed25519FUUU wrote: post #68
wdb wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Probably it's better to write it off as a loss than lower the rent

The absence of income is not a "loss", certainly not a taxable one. This is not how landlords make money.

The landlord's paying for the building no matter what, so it's possible that depending on how it's leveraged and their income overall, they'd rather lose money and get a reduction in taxable income than break even with lowered rent.

Re: Fleeing New Yorkers resulted in an estimated $34B in lost income – study

#86

Post by medium_burrito »

jokethrowaway wrote: post #64
Merman_Mike wrote: post #26

I permanently left NYC this year. The combination of high taxes, corruption, and incompetence really wear on you after a while. I'm all for high taxes in service of a strong social safety net and a well-run, modern city. I am happy to pay them. But I can't help but feel that my taxes were being outright stolen and squandered in this city.

That's an interesting point of view Don't you think it's exactly the high taxes that give space for corruption and incompetence? Once you accumulate a large pool of money (especially if it's someone else money), the larger the pool, the easier it is to waste it. We see it with governments, big tech companies, VC funded startups, even when pooling money for a road trip with friends. I think the enemy is human nature a…

Everything gives room for corruption and incompetence. The problem is the US has some of the most incompetent government on a local level in the developed world. Part of it is American individualism, part of it is the Republican party starving the beast, part of it is the government as a giant jobs program.

There is no reason we cannot have competent civil servants, long term planning, clean cities, etc.

I'm completely serious when I say we should just outsource everything on the county level and lower to the Swiss or Dutch.

Re: Fleeing New Yorkers resulted in an estimated $34B in lost income – study

#87

Post by siquick »

kepler1 wrote: post #61
ajsnigrutin wrote: post #38

Louis Rossman said it in many of his recent videos.... new york has everything, but also costs alot. You have cinemas, broadway, restaurants, everything.... and you pay for that privilige. Now, when all that is closed, you have only the "bad" parts (the homeless, crime, noise, bad smells... all that with a "premium price")... so, why stay? Poor people have no jobs, have to move out.... rich people don't have anything…

Even worse for San Francisco. Basically just "restaurants" and an easy getaway to outdoors. And worse on all the other fronts as well (crime, homeless, cost of living, etc). How well a city takes care of these issues in the good times and has rational/sensible policies sets it up for how it will do in bad times.

> Even worse for San Francisco. Basically just "restaurants" and an easy getaway to outdoors.

This wasn't my experience in San Francisco when I visited in 2016 - I saw some of the best live music in small bars I've ever heard, went to a couple of awesome free outdoor events, record shopping was quality, just walking around an area like Mission I came across a lot of interesting cafes, shops, bars, street art, and people.

I was visiting from Melbourne, Australia - supposed live music capital of the world, ranked worlds most liveable city, and it has a lot of the above - and San Francisco felt pretty exciting with a lot to do.

Re: Fleeing New Yorkers resulted in an estimated $34B in lost income – study

#88

Post by rednerrus »

j2bax wrote: post #10
economusty wrote: post #4

Remember which political party runs the city.

While we are at it, lets remember which political party runs the areas that are most dependent on the government. Source: https://wallethub.com/edu/most-independent-states/36426#main...

Looks like lots of places that grow the food you eat.

Re: Fleeing New Yorkers resulted in an estimated $34B in lost income – study

#89

Post by pc86 »

CydeWeys wrote: post #66
ruddct wrote: post #48

> About 3.57 million people left New York City this year between Jan. 1 and Dec. 7, according to Unacast, which analyzed anonymized cell phone location data. Some 3.5 million people earning lower average incomes moved into the city during that same period, the report showed. Uhhh I'd take this with a HEAVY grain of salt, given that it's based off of anonymized cell phone location data. Were this true, 40% of NYC's po…

It's absolute nonsense from my anecdotal experience here in NYC as well. I don't even see how it's remotely possible for a full 40% of NYC's population to have turned over in the span of 9 months. New lease signings are down , not up many hundreds of percentage points! Every single thing that would have to be true for this to be true as well, isn't. It's bad methodology from one company trying to get its name in the…

I might be misunderstanding you, but doesn't lease signings being down support the argument that a large subset of NYC residents have left?

Re: Fleeing New Yorkers resulted in an estimated $34B in lost income – study

#90

Post by Merman_Mike »

jokethrowaway wrote: post #64
Merman_Mike wrote: post #26

I permanently left NYC this year. The combination of high taxes, corruption, and incompetence really wear on you after a while. I'm all for high taxes in service of a strong social safety net and a well-run, modern city. I am happy to pay them. But I can't help but feel that my taxes were being outright stolen and squandered in this city.

That's an interesting point of view Don't you think it's exactly the high taxes that give space for corruption and incompetence? Once you accumulate a large pool of money (especially if it's someone else money), the larger the pool, the easier it is to waste it. We see it with governments, big tech companies, VC funded startups, even when pooling money for a road trip with friends. I think the enemy is human nature a…

I've lived in a northern European city for an extended period. I paid higher taxes than in NYC. The difference in public transit, public schools, and social services (some of which I used) was night and day compared to NYC.

There are absolutely endless stories of NYC government incompetence [1] and corruption [2]. Here are a few recent stories that come to mind:

[1]

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/09/29/us/nearly-100000-new-york...

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/11/18/nyregion/nyc-schools-covi...

[2]

https://www.wsj.com/articles/five-current-and-former-mta-emp...

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/03/22/nyregion/thrivenyc-mental...

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