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Record Breaking Number of Journalists Arrested in the U.S. This Year

freedom.press

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Re: Record Breaking Number of Journalists Arrested in the U.S. This Year

#331

Post by dang »

sneak wrote: post #176
user764743 wrote: post #144

Reading the comments in this thread and I am amazed at the sudden pro-authoritarian shift seen on HN lately, what's going on?

Not to get too meta, but I think rich people and SV have always tended toward authoritarian; it's not like rich people get hassled by the cops that often. Recall also that SV got its start by selling tech to the military[1]. It's not something sudden. You have to remember that HN is by and of a very specific part of wider society. See also: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Shockley#Views_on_race... [1]: https://…

That's not a true statement about HN. Less than 10% of the community is in SV—it's all over the world and has tons of different "very specific parts of wider society". That's one reason why people argue so much about this stuff. If you think the HN community is SV-friendly or even startup-friendly, it may surprise you that many people in those communities feel like it's exactly the other way around.

Re: Record Breaking Number of Journalists Arrested in the U.S. This Year

#332

Post by throw_a_say »

dang wrote: post #266
user764743 wrote: post #144

Reading the comments in this thread and I am amazed at the sudden pro-authoritarian shift seen on HN lately, what's going on?

This is the contrarian dynamic: https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&sor... . Internet comments get provoked by seeing something one objects to. When the thread is new, the only things to object to are the article and the title, so comments come from people objecting to those. Such posts tend to be reflexive and shallow because those are the fastest reactions to feel and the quickest to write. Mos…

Is there any datasets made available about this? Given our current inability to discuss things online without disastrous consequences, seem like it could be useful.

Presumably you are talking about HN discussions but what your are saying sounds extremely general

Re: Record Breaking Number of Journalists Arrested in the U.S. This Year

#333

Post by PeterisP »

austincheney wrote: post #191
wnevets wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

tech people aren't immune to the hyper divisiveness taking place around the world. Once "your team" decides it no longer wants to respect freedom of the press or election results then you must follow suit. Gotta make sure your team wins, right?

Some people don’t play on a team.

Sure, some don't, but most do (at least unconsciously), that's just how people behave. Some people consciously try to avoid "playing on a team" with various degrees of success, but it's a bit unnatural and actually quite hard to do.

Re: Record Breaking Number of Journalists Arrested in the U.S. This Year

#334

Post by grumio »

user764743 wrote: post #144

Reading the comments in this thread and I am amazed at the sudden pro-authoritarian shift seen on HN lately, what's going on?

Same. I've been seeing more "the boot is justified unless proven otherwise, and no I don't need to provide a source; and if it is proven otherwise, I've already lost interest and moved on." and less "innocent until proven guilty." Obviously there's some of both and always has been, but I feel the same as you do.

I remember when a website counting how many days James Clapper has avoided a prison sentence after he gave a false statement was big on the front page a while back.

Just the other day there was a thread about experts identifying an illegal toxin used on protestors in Portland while LE illegally blocks access to storm drains so that further evidence of it cannot be collected.

Both threads pertain to law enforcement overstepping their bounds with impunity and secrecy. The toxic gas one was flagged off the front page despite 125 upvotes in a short time.

https://futurehuman.medium.com/scientists-identified-a-green...

Re: Record Breaking Number of Journalists Arrested in the U.S. This Year

#335

Post by [deleted] »

Miraste wrote: post #251
mrlala wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No idea but I agree. Part of me thinks it's 'intellectual elites' here that simply can't fathom not working at a FAANG job making 250k+ and don't understand the problems most people have. And if you aren't working at one of those you must be the ultra silicon valley entrepreneur trying to do the next big thing because money. Probably downvoted for this but whatever, I think it's the truth. When I first was on this si…

HN has never been a forum for geeks. Y Combinator is an investment company focused on profit, like any other. It and (much of) the HN readership extract that profit from technology, but the money ultimately supersedes the tech. This is worth remembering when reading HN threads on regulation or open source software.

[deleted]

Re: Record Breaking Number of Journalists Arrested in the U.S. This Year

#336

Post by secfirstmd »

Some useful tools for journalists at risk to help manage their digital and physical security:

Surveillance Self Defence (mostly digital security, strong US material in particular) https://ssd.eff.org/en

Security in a Box (mostly digital security) https://securityinabox.org/en/

Umbrella App (built by my team) on iOS, Android (a mix of everything from digital to physical surveillance, protest, kidnap etc.) https://secfirst.org/umbrella/ or web (Beta) https://umbrella.secfirst.org

Re: Record Breaking Number of Journalists Arrested in the U.S. This Year

#337

Post by Manfredo_1 »

honkycat wrote: post #317
manfredo wrote: post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a strong argument to be made for police accountability and conduct. But this post seems to complete ignore the actions of demonstrators and the journalists (often self-proclaimed and self-employed) embedded within them. Look at the disparity between Portland and Minneapolis with respect to the rest of the country: New York has 20 times the population yet only half the journalist arrests. Portland has the same…

So because you witnessed a riot for the first time, and it wasn't in one of THOSE neighborhoods, we should ignore these statistics and assume there is no problem with police arresting journalists at an elevated rate? We literally saw a CNN news crew arrested live on air, something completely unprecedented. The majority of BLM protests have been peaceful[0]. I'll just come out and say it: You are not arguing in good f…

This thread is triggering rate limiting:

> I'll just come out and say it: You are not arguing in good faith. You have 0 interest in considering the merits of the police accountability movement. You trying to discredit the movement by pointing to the minority of opportunists who have sprung up.

No, the people who protest in a productive and lawful manner I genuinely support. They are the victims of opportunists who riot, and make it so that the former cannot peacefully assemble. When a protest turns into a riot, and a curfew or dispersal order is issued it is the opportunists and rioters who deprived the legitimate protestors of their opportunity to speak. That is part of why it's so important to detain and charge rioters: it's not just the direct harm of violence, it's also the indirect harm of inhibiting peaceful demonstration.

But back to the original point, referencing a sharp increase in arrests while ignoring a sharp increase in riots is just willful ignorance. That's really what it is. What were the biggest riots we had in 2019? In 2018? Were they even remotely as big as the summer 2020 riots?

Re: Record Breaking Number of Journalists Arrested in the U.S. This Year

#338

Post by daveslash »

shadowgovt wrote: post #255
lawnchair_larry wrote: post #238

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most of them aren’t though. Portland has a ton of antifa kids running around with “press” signage who are also help organizing things, passing intel, or blatantly assaulting cops. Do that a couple times and “PRESS” means nothing. You should be upset with the rioters, not their victims.

Some of the rioters are victims, so I'll be upset with all kinds of people. In general, it's somewhat irrelevant whether someone declares themselves to be press because there are scant laws that declare the press is allowed to do X while a normal citizen can't. The "PRESS" signage should, in theory, be a useful signal to law enforcement that someone isn't there to make a disturbance (this, of course, breaks down if r…

Regarding "be a useful signal to law enforcement that someone isn't there to make a disturbance , and also regarding the notion that anyone could slap a press sign on themselves... seems apparent that, to a certain extent, there's an amount of civilization's underpinnings assume well-intent.

Re: Record Breaking Number of Journalists Arrested in the U.S. This Year

#339

Post by Manfredo_1 »

smnrchrds wrote: post #322
Manfredo_1 wrote: post #301

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This thread seems to be triggering rate limiting: What "hard evidence" contradicts it? Can you provide evidence that no such dispersal order was given? Or that they were arrested prior to such order, or curfew? In fact the source you posted doesn't even claim that they were arrested for filming. This idea that the reporter was arrested for filming seems to be entirely your own. Your question isn't, "Why am I ready to…

The video is the evidence. If you don't accept it as evidence, perhaps the fact that the governor of Minnesota apologized for it should hint that the arrest was not justified. If you don't consider any evidence, except police's words, to be evidence, I have nothing to add. https://www.cnn.com/2020/06/03/politics/tim-walz-apology-oma...

Nowhere in the interview you linked to did the Minnesota governor say that the journalist was arrested for filming, either.

The CNN journalist was far from the only person arrested. If the cops were arresting people for filming, not for violating dispersal orders, why were so many other people in the area who weren't filming being arrested? Why do you insist on claiming that they were arrested for filming, when CNN's own article doesn't make this claim?

There was no causal link between filming and this man's arrest. The police ordered a crowd to disperse, and the crowd didn't. Members of the crowd did not disperse, and were arrested. A journalist was among said members that did not disperse and were arrested. He would have been arrested whether or not he was filming.

Re: Record Breaking Number of Journalists Arrested in the U.S. This Year

#340

Post by ska »

smithza wrote: post #327
ska wrote: post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think this "balance" framing really works. Absolutely, traditional journalism had some problems with bias, and they were tough to improve. I can't think of a single thing in journalism (NB, journalism, not information access) that hasn't become notably worse due to the collapse.

Sometimes it helps knowing a source is biased. Reading National Review, for example, allows you to assume the opinions held are relatively conservative. Reading the Bulwark, you know there is a progressive bent. Proceed with your own thoughtfulness therefore in comparing the two. We as consumers/readers never read an article without bias either.

Sure, but that hasn't changed in recent years.
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