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Record Breaking Number of Journalists Arrested in the U.S. This Year

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Re: Record Breaking Number of Journalists Arrested in the U.S. This Year

#321

Post by smithza »

gameswithgo wrote: post #287
loudmax wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know how to answer your dilemma that all of us face. But to add some nuance... it's pretty rare for a news organization of whatever political persuasion to report outright falsehoods. An individual reporter may stretch the truth more than we're comfortable with, but as a whole, the big news outlets are more likely to make mistakes than commit outright lies that they know are false. Most of the bias is in deci…

> it's pretty rare for a news organization of whatever political persuasion to report outright falsehoods Have you been not consuming news for the last 5 years?

Can you point to cases where this is common in mainstream news outlets? We are talking about exceptions, not norms. The 1619 Project and its revisionist perspective may have had misleading conclusions (or premises) but it was not committing errors of outright falsehood. This just an example of bias vs factual misinformation.

Re: Record Breaking Number of Journalists Arrested in the U.S. This Year

#322

Post by smnrchrds »

Manfredo_1 wrote: post #301
smnrchrds wrote: post #285

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why are you ready to take police's words at face value, while completely dismissing the hard video evidence that directly contradicts it? This is giving me serious 1984 vibes.

This thread seems to be triggering rate limiting: What "hard evidence" contradicts it? Can you provide evidence that no such dispersal order was given? Or that they were arrested prior to such order, or curfew? In fact the source you posted doesn't even claim that they were arrested for filming. This idea that the reporter was arrested for filming seems to be entirely your own. Your question isn't, "Why am I ready to…

The video is the evidence. If you don't accept it as evidence, perhaps the fact that the governor of Minnesota apologized for it should hint that the arrest was not justified. If you don't consider any evidence, except police's words, to be evidence, I have nothing to add.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/06/03/politics/tim-walz-apology-oma...

Re: Record Breaking Number of Journalists Arrested in the U.S. This Year

#323

Post by mosdave »

slg wrote: post #305
pc86 wrote: post #275

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you take a picture of something happening on your street and write a blog post about it, you are not a journalist. If you wouldn't be granted press credentials for something, you're probably not a journalist. If it's a side gig you don't intend to make a living doing, you're very likely not a journalist. There are plenty of instances where someone can fit into the article's definition of "journalist" where they pr…

Would you say people aren't software developers unless they are employed by a company to predominately develop software? Because your comment certainly reads like that type of gatekeeping regarding who is and is not a journalist.

> Would you say people aren't software developers unless they are employed by a company to predominately develop software?

Yes, without question. It's tautological.

Re: Record Breaking Number of Journalists Arrested in the U.S. This Year

#324

Post by dang »

mattacular wrote: post #173
user764743 wrote: post #144

Reading the comments in this thread and I am amazed at the sudden pro-authoritarian shift seen on HN lately, what's going on?

HN is pretty conservative on average.

People with the opposite politics say exactly the opposite. Both are illusions—in fact they're the same illusion: https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&sor...

Here's an example from the other day: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25389506. I could give you a hundred more. Both sides feel like the site is dominated by the other side, to a degree in proportion to the intensity of their own views. In fact this phenomenon is so reliable that one can use it to predict not only a person's politics but how strongly they feel about it.

Other bits on this if anyone cares:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23308098

https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&so...

Re: Record Breaking Number of Journalists Arrested in the U.S. This Year

#325

Post by smithza »

shadowgovt wrote: post #193
dgritsko wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So here's the dilemma I'm faced with. As someone who wishes to consume news that is as factual as reasonably possible, while also being aware that at least some bias is inevitable (no matter how well-intentioned the author may be)... how does one evaluate a news source for its trustworthiness, short of physically observing an event for yourself?

Do something similar to journalists: 1) Cross-check. If a news source says something, see what others are saying. Especially others with no vested interest in agreeing with source 1. 2) (This is key, and where I think people tend to fail hardest) Reputation. Real news sources make mistakes. Real news sources print retractions. Real news sources have a reputation to curate. Guy sitting in his van ranting into a camera…

This is helpful, and something I agree with mostly. Of course the difficulty is what you nodded towards in point 4: "Do the one thing the modern world discourages you from doing and slow the hell down". We lead busy lives and need to digest news quickly. It helps when you have a few voices from different domains that you trust, where you can let your guard (relatively) down.

The other thing that is helpful is your reminder to cross reference sources with no vested interest. The conspiracy-mongering journalist has a vested interest in his/her narrative looking convincing and will have a link to his merch site at the bottom of the article/vodcast/podcast.

Re: Record Breaking Number of Journalists Arrested in the U.S. This Year

#326

Post by throwaway894345 »

pc86 wrote: post #275
three_seagrass wrote: post #230

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Journalist is not loosely defined. FTA: >While we recognize the importance and the rights of the private citizen who snaps a photo or video of an arrest, this site will only cover individuals who self-identify as journalists and have some track record of journalistic work. Splitting hairs over the semantics of the word 'journalistic' is an attempt to discredit the study about authoritarianism being at an all time hig…

If you take a picture of something happening on your street and write a blog post about it, you are not a journalist. If you wouldn't be granted press credentials for something, you're probably not a journalist. If it's a side gig you don't intend to make a living doing, you're very likely not a journalist. There are plenty of instances where someone can fit into the article's definition of "journalist" where they pr…

I admittedly haven't read the article yet (I'll carry the shame until my dying day, etc), but does it take into account that we've had a lot more unrest than usual this year? Even without an uptick in authoritarianism, I would expect more journalists to be arrested in a year with lots of riots and protests against the police than in a calm year. Specifically, you have record numbers of journalists working in close proximity to police officers who (warranted or not) are working long hours with people shouting in their faces (let's say, "conditions for which they're inadequately trained").

Maybe you'll argue that it's authoritarianism either way, and maybe you're technically right, but a top-down directive to arrest journalists sounds a lot different (and scarier) than the situation I described above.

Re: Record Breaking Number of Journalists Arrested in the U.S. This Year

#327

Post by smithza »

ska wrote: post #192
Loughla wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean, it's a double-edged sword. On one side, the death of traditional journalism really has opened up folks' eyes to bias in reporting. Having one or two main-stream news sources really opens up the possibility for bias becoming truth. On the other side, now that everyone is a reporter, people roll around inside whichever cocoon of bias makes them feel the best. It's very frustrating, and overwhelming.

I don't think this "balance" framing really works. Absolutely, traditional journalism had some problems with bias, and they were tough to improve. I can't think of a single thing in journalism (NB, journalism, not information access) that hasn't become notably worse due to the collapse.

Sometimes it helps knowing a source is biased. Reading National Review, for example, allows you to assume the opinions held are relatively conservative. Reading the Bulwark, you know there is a progressive bent. Proceed with your own thoughtfulness therefore in comparing the two. We as consumers/readers never read an article without bias either.

Re: Record Breaking Number of Journalists Arrested in the U.S. This Year

#328

Post by 867-5309 »

mosdave wrote: post #323
slg wrote: post #305

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would you say people aren't software developers unless they are employed by a company to predominately develop software? Because your comment certainly reads like that type of gatekeeping regarding who is and is not a journalist.

> Would you say people aren't software developers unless they are employed by a company to predominately develop software? Yes, without question. It's tautological.

what about unemployed/retired software developers, and open source contributors?

Re: Record Breaking Number of Journalists Arrested in the U.S. This Year

#329

Post by throwaway894345 »

mosdave wrote: post #323
slg wrote: post #305

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would you say people aren't software developers unless they are employed by a company to predominately develop software? Because your comment certainly reads like that type of gatekeeping regarding who is and is not a journalist.

> Would you say people aren't software developers unless they are employed by a company to predominately develop software? Yes, without question. It's tautological.

It would perhaps be tautological if the OP had qualified professional software developers, but the tautological definition for "software developer" is "anyone who develops software (irrespective of whether they do it professionally)". If we're going to pick nits, we may as well be accurate, right?

Re: Record Breaking Number of Journalists Arrested in the U.S. This Year

#330

Post by daveslash »

busterarm wrote: post #198
i_haz_rabies wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We will look back on the ruination of journalism as a profession as one of the most consequential changes of these last two decades.

Yellow journalism has always been a thing and has been problematic lots of times in our history. This is really just the prolonged conclusion of 24 hour news cycles that have been with us since cable television. What's the quote about newspapers bringing all of the horrors of the world to your doorstep? Television brought them into your living room. Now with online media you carry them around with you.

Now with online media you carry it into the bathroom.

(Low quality comment, I know. I'll see myself out.)

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