Live data from Hacker News

EU reveals plan to regulate Big Tech

bbc.com

131–140 of 332 posts

Re: EU reveals plan to regulate Big Tech

#131

Once again governments pushing their responsibilities onto corporations.

Actually no, it's the opposite. It's governments regulating companies, and thereby taking responsibility. Going a step further would make governments actively intervene in day-to-day-operations.

Ehh one of the major complaints about EU legislation is it's left intentionally vague and relies on the companies to guess what the goal is, which of course misses something, take their yearly fines and tweak their system after each round of fines.

Re: EU reveals plan to regulate Big Tech

#132
post #108
post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The EU is currently based upon the Treaty of Lisbon [1] signed in 2007 after the referenda of 2005 for the new constitution (Spain yes, France and Netherlands nay) [1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_of_Lisbon

Yes, exactly. Nations gave away sovereign, constitutional powers literally after their populations boldly rejected the terms, in a fair and open democratic processes. Other European nations, verging on 'voting no' were denied the chance precisely because the EU apparatus knew what the outcome would be. There's basically no defence of that issue, and the patronizing arguments defending 'indirect' nature of democracy o…

> It's mesmerizing to watch legions of young people defend an undemocratic system that their ancestors literally fought for 2000 years to overcome, with literally millions dead.

It's mesmerizing to watch legions of young people defend a Union they grew up in with no wars, with relative economic stability, with open borders and unencumbered travel. Compared to their ancestors who literally sacrificed millions of people fighting over each square millimiter of land for centuries on end.

> There is obvious need for reform, and if there was, I'll bet Norway and UK would be part of it, and possibly even Switzerland.

Norway and Switzerland are not part of EU [1]. UK has left the EU and it will be fascinating how it will function now that it has severed basically all ties with the EU.

[1] They are a part of the Schengen Area and various other treaties. They are, however, tightly integrated into the EU and are basically bound by most of EU's laws.

Re: EU reveals plan to regulate Big Tech

#133
post #99
post #75

Ok, I will probably get downvoted for this. But I will still speak my mind: I am an EU citizen and I don’t think that’s the right approach because it’s distracting from what really happened: We missed the big Internet bus because we were so much focused on keeping things the way they were. Now we try to regulate us out. It makes me unbelievably sad. And it continues. The car was invented here but it takes an Australi…

Europe didn’t miss the internet bus because of regulations, there were no regulations until the dust settled. The thing is, there’s no US style capital in EU. The American capitalist bankrolled all the internet when there was no clear path to make money from it. I remember when YouTube was burning billions per year, Facebook being labeled as “would never be profitable”. Is there the kind of money in Europe that would…

> Europe didn’t miss the internet bus because of regulations, there were no regulations until the dust settled.

False. In France at least, state-monopoly Minitel services shadowed early initial Internet development. Even as Internet took over, communication state monopolies clamped development with overpriced phone bills for a couple of years minimum. It is only when France Telecom got privatized and Free (owned by a former Minitel erotic chat mogul) disrupted them with widescale ADSL development that thing really took off.

> If you made the YouTube in Europe you would go bankrupt because you wouldn’t be able to pay the server bills.

False again, EU Youtube was Dailymotion, nothing but mismanagement over mismanagement, bad political decision over bad political decision.

Re: EU reveals plan to regulate Big Tech

#134
post #44
post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The EU didn't create its citizens (unlike Apple which created its products); saying that the EU 'owns' their market is quite a big step in assuming control over the lives of residents.

The EU is its citizens. So in a sense the EU did create its citizens.

[deleted]

Re: EU reveals plan to regulate Big Tech

#135
post #110
post #75

Ok, I will probably get downvoted for this. But I will still speak my mind: I am an EU citizen and I don’t think that’s the right approach because it’s distracting from what really happened: We missed the big Internet bus because we were so much focused on keeping things the way they were. Now we try to regulate us out. It makes me unbelievably sad. And it continues. The car was invented here but it takes an Australi…

Another EU citizen here, resonating with your words. It seems that Europe has decided to stop evolving and just do anything to protect the status quo. All these regulations just trying to keep those damn disruptors at bay. Innovation is forbidden here. But hey! It’s for our own good.

>It seems that Europe has decided to stop evolving and just do anything to protect the status quo. Innovation is forbidden here. But hey! It’s for our own good.

Yeah, this. Europe is an old continent that's mostly old money. The Europeans of today are rich mostly due to inherited wealth and former imperialism, not wealth they created themselves through innovation, with some families tracing their wealth back for centuries when land was cheap and plentiful and taxes were next to nothing that any hardworking person could buy land and build a business and while the wealth didn't go stratospheric, it still multiplied handsomely for their successors since "time in the market beats timing the market".

If you look at Europe's biggest and wealthiest companies, most of them are several decades if not centuries old with some of their major shareholders still being old European nobility, in contrast to the US where the top tech companies are at most 30 years old, with older ones that fail to innovate always dying in a healthy cycle (IBM, Sun, Oracle, SGI, etc.), leaving room for new players(FAANG) to come on the market and eat the lunch of the dinosaurs. While in Europe, with so much of the pie taken by the old players, there's no more room for new players to spring up since the old established ones pulled the ladder up after them.

The image of the typical wealthy successful German is not that of a hip 20-30 year old who built some cool business in his dorm room or his parents' garage like in the US, but of a 40 year old man with a Porsche who inherited his dad's machine shop and rolodex(typical owner of the famous Mittelstand that's always revered here on HN).

All this old wealth is very risk adverse and feels threatened by disruptions and will fight tooth and nail to keep their status quo.

Re: EU reveals plan to regulate Big Tech

#136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> they don't have a responsibility to protect free speech because they are a private entity It continually amazes me when I see people who are ostensibly on the left trotting out this chestnut like as though it's even remotely a valid argument for the curtailment of one of the most important rights over the past few centuries. It's like as though they're in complete denial about the idea that this kind of speech cont…

Strange argument your making there. One of the interesting side effects of free speech rights is also the prevention of forced speech. After all how can you have free speech if someone else can force to express views you don’t hold? Why should my right to free speech trump your right to not be forced to speak? Equally what right to I have to force any corporation to publish and distribute speech they don’t agree with…

I don't see how I am forcing you as a person to say a damn thing. You've entered into a new level of tactical nihilism here.

> you’re saying that I have the right to go to your home, plaster it with posters that you disagree with, then prevent you from removing them.

How is your personal home the same thing as a gigantic, billion-user social network that has effectively (especially in 2020) replaced the pub, the bar, the town square, and the public forum? It's not, and you know it isn't.

Step back and look at yourself: you're defending the right of billion dollar corporations to tell you what you can and cannot say.

> Does that sound like free speech to you?

Re: EU reveals plan to regulate Big Tech

#137
post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> That's the real concern here. Speech must be handled very carefully, but now we're elevating some specific people to be 'more equal' than others? Who are these people, and why do they get more say? I can see that opening a can of worms. Well, who are the people that censor all other kinds of media? As far as I know movies are censored (Motion Picture Production Code, Motion Picture Association film rating system),…

To be clear, movie and music ratings aren't censorship. Moreover, only broadcast television and radio are censored (perhaps because radio waves are a public platform?). I'm not going to argue that censoring broadcast is ideal or valid, but I'm certainly less sympathetic to the plight of massive media companies than I am to millions of private citizens.

> To be clear, movie and music ratings aren't censorship.

And yet I consider restricting access to educative LGBT+ films under the banner of "18+" to be censorship

Re: EU reveals plan to regulate Big Tech

#138
post #106
post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"do, it’s also why democracy is such a big thing" Voters of France and Netherlands strongly rejected the treaty upon which the EU derives is legitimacy. Referendums were cancelled elsewhere. Ursula von der Leyen did not receive any votes, she wasn't even part of the process, she was an unknown German figure until after the election, when she was plucked from obscurity by actors acting in total opacity, behind closed…

> Ursula von der Leyen did not receive any votes She was nominated by the Council of Europe (comprised of the heads of state for each of the EU nations), and confirmed by the European Parliament (which represents the European electorate).

That is a very uncharitable and weak interpretation of the grandparent. For the parliamentary elections, the bigger parties agreed to try to fix democracy deficits by promising to elect a nominated candidate (Frans Timmmermans and Manfred Weber) as president of the commission depending on which block won in parliament. Yet, after the election, in a typical EU backroom deal, von der Leyen was elected. So it is quite fair to say that no constituent voted for her in any meaningful way.

https://www.zeit.de/politik/ausland/2019-07/ursula-von-der-l...

Re: EU reveals plan to regulate Big Tech

#139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of course the EU created her citizens, do you think European citizenship is some sort of fact of nature? Like people woke up in Europe in a cave and were like "Yeah of course we're cosmopolitan citizens of the United European states" ? All the rules, all the borders, all their values have been created, quite hard earned in fact, with a lot of blood and sweat along the way I might add, even more so than at an Apple sm…

There is no such thing as "EU citizenship". I am a French citizen, my passport says I am a French citizen, and I do not have a SINGLE legal document mentioning "European citizen".

Just checked the cover and first page of my french passport (made in 2013).

There's 3 lines written in different languages in this order :

- Union européenne

- République française

- Passeport

It doesn't says "French citizen" either, just "French Republic" and "European Union" multiple times.

Re: EU reveals plan to regulate Big Tech

#140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of course the EU created her citizens, do you think European citizenship is some sort of fact of nature? Like people woke up in Europe in a cave and were like "Yeah of course we're cosmopolitan citizens of the United European states" ? All the rules, all the borders, all their values have been created, quite hard earned in fact, with a lot of blood and sweat along the way I might add, even more so than at an Apple sm…

There is no such thing as "EU citizenship". I am a French citizen, my passport says I am a French citizen, and I do not have a SINGLE legal document mentioning "European citizen".

How about the passport of the European Union? [1]

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Passports_of_the_European_Unio...

Post reply on HN