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Record Breaking Number of Journalists Arrested in the U.S. This Year

freedom.press

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Re: Record Breaking Number of Journalists Arrested in the U.S. This Year

#261

Post by ceejayoz »

jimmygrapes wrote: post #253
outworlder wrote: post #220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because we have looked at the statistics.

Which statistics are these, please provide! They must be both very detailed and very massaged to get a result as generic as "cops are racist" (a mindset that requires significantly more information than provided by mere statistics to identify).

Here's one pretty interesting result: https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2020/05/200507094621.h...

> The largest-ever study of alleged racial profiling during traffic stops has found that blacks, who are pulled over more frequently than whites by day, are much less likely to be stopped after sunset, when "a veil of darkness" masks their race.

> The Stanford team decided to repeat the analysis using the much larger dataset that they had gathered. First, they narrowed the range of variables they had to analyze by choosing a specific time of day -- around 7 p.m. -- when the probable causes for a stop were more or less constant. Next, they took advantage of the fact that, in the months before and after daylight saving time each year, the sky gets a little darker or lighter, day by day. Because they had such a massive database, the researchers were able to find 113,000 traffic stops, from all of the locations in their database, that occurred on those days, before or after clocks sprang forward or fell back, when the sky was growing darker or lighter at around 7 p.m. local time.

Re: Record Breaking Number of Journalists Arrested in the U.S. This Year

#262

Post by outworlder »

SpicyLemonZest wrote: post #184
user764743 wrote: post #144

Reading the comments in this thread and I am amazed at the sudden pro-authoritarian shift seen on HN lately, what's going on?

It's just that recent issues have made controversial policing issues much more salient. Speaking for myself, I've always thought that riots are very bad and the police should use extreme force to shut them down - I just never really ended up talking about it until recently, because it was never a tremendously interesting or relevant topic. In general, it's important to remember that any consensus you see on an Intern…

"Extreme force"?

Do you realize what you are asking for?

Re: Record Breaking Number of Journalists Arrested in the U.S. This Year

#263

Post by maxk42 »

oblio wrote: post #137
cpr wrote: post #113

The "record number" seems to be (as the article says) mostly related to the rioting--reporters getting arrested as part of the rioting response. Doesn't seem like an institutional crisis at all.

Wasn't there a video of clearly identified Australian press in Washington DC getting assaulted by the police? If that's normal...

If you disobey lawful orders from police this is exactly what will happen to you. I don't understand why so many people are surprised by this.

Re: Record Breaking Number of Journalists Arrested in the U.S. This Year

#264

Post by conductr »

jakelazaroff wrote: post #24
conductr wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s also not like they have press cards in their hat or some press pass lanyard. They look like everyone else and are probably recording/photographing like everyone else. An arrest by itself doesn’t mean much in this context. But I assume they are released once they can be proven to be a journalist and no charges are brought.

That's not a particularly moving defense. There are no de jure rights afforded specifically to journalists (whatever your definition). And even if there were, the threat of arrest is still an intimidation tactic the police can use to subjugate civilians — journalist or not.

If you want to ignore the context I mentioned and make this a broad statement about policing in the US that’s fine but it’s also a completely different topic. Generally speaking, journalists are allowed to do their jobs and have a low risk of being arrested. They got caught up in the mix of the riots not dispersing as ordered, is my take. It’s not a trend or a bigger statement about the nations criminal justice system, no matter how flawed. This data shows nothing when context is applied.

Re: Record Breaking Number of Journalists Arrested in the U.S. This Year

#265

Post by jjeaff »

manfredo wrote: post #205
boopmaster wrote: post #128

This is because Black Lives Matter™, and because black lives matter. This isn’t a hyper escalation against freedom of the press, per se, it’s an escalation of police on citizen violence that came about when police felt threatened when folks got a little extra vocal about how the racist cops boys club has little to no accountability when harming citizens they’re supposed to protect. I think this narrowly focuses on tr…

There's a strong argument to be made for police accountability and conduct. But this post seems to complete ignore the actions of demonstrators and the journalists (often self-proclaimed and self-employed) embedded within them. Look at the disparity between Portland and Minneapolis with respect to the rest of the country: New York has 20 times the population yet only half the journalist arrests. Portland has the same…

I don't have any memory in my lifetime of a credentialed CNN reporter being arrested live on air in front of his camera crew on US soil until this year.

I think it is rare that the singular instance of misbehavior is caught on live video feed.

I would have to assume that there were many, many similar cases that weren't captured on live cable news.

Re: Record Breaking Number of Journalists Arrested in the U.S. This Year

#266

Post by dang »

user764743 wrote: post #144

Reading the comments in this thread and I am amazed at the sudden pro-authoritarian shift seen on HN lately, what's going on?

This is the contrarian dynamic: https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&sor....

Internet comments get provoked by seeing something one objects to. When the thread is new, the only things to object to are the article and the title, so comments come from people objecting to those. Such posts tend to be reflexive and shallow because those are the fastest reactions to feel and the quickest to write. Mostly they are made from pre-existing thoughts and pent-up energy; there hasn't been time yet to absorb (let's call it) the fiber of a story—the specific information, the diffs, the curious bits. Thus they tend to be generic and angry, and usually are just triggered by some surface detail. Not good, but here we are.

Then there's a second wave of commenters who post objections to the objections. Those usually get upvoted, and that is how we so often end up with a "I can't believe these comments" or "WTF HN" comment at the top of a thread.

It's a mechanical process which has nothing specifically to do with either the content or the community. The community is simply large enough that for literally any $X there are sufficient readers who will reflexively object to $X. We're all full of reflexive reactions, just to different things.

Is that what we want here? No, but it's important to diagnose it correctly. The objections-to-the-objections wave (and yes, there are third waves too, and on it goes) can be just as reflexive and shallow as the original posts. The quality of these comments doesn't come from the content or the specific views being expressed—it's about what level of (let's say) the nervous system is producing them. If it's a fast, reflexive, cached reaction, that's not interesting. It can't be, because by definition it's about something else—something one has seen or felt or argued about before—while interest means being interested in this, what's new about it. For that one needs to access a slower, reflective mode (https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&sor...).

Responses of interest are slower to appear and seem to come literally from slower processes in the body. It takes time to process new information and for a new response to form. New responses are interesting and produce richer waves of conversation, as people have new responses to those in turn. We could call that the curiosity dynamic and that's what we're going for here (https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&sor...).

Re: Record Breaking Number of Journalists Arrested in the U.S. This Year

#267

Post by tjr225 »

Reedx wrote: post #258
outworlder wrote: post #220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because we have looked at the statistics.

This is worth a read for a nuanced, holistic look at the stats. https://samharris.org/can-pull-back-brink/

Lol, from that very article:

> Specifically, in New York City, in encounters where white and black citizens were matched for other characteristics, they found that:

> Cops were…

> 17 percent more likely to go hands on black suspects

> 18 percent more likely to push them into a wall

> 16 percent more likely to put them in handcuffs (in a situation in which they aren’t arrested)

> 18 percent more likely to push them to the ground

> 25 percent more likely to use pepper spray or a baton

> 19 percent more likely to draw their guns

> 24 percent more likely to point a gun at them.

Re: Record Breaking Number of Journalists Arrested in the U.S. This Year

#268

Post by sneak »

boopmaster wrote: post #128

This is because Black Lives Matter™, and because black lives matter. This isn’t a hyper escalation against freedom of the press, per se, it’s an escalation of police on citizen violence that came about when police felt threatened when folks got a little extra vocal about how the racist cops boys club has little to no accountability when harming citizens they’re supposed to protect. I think this narrowly focuses on tr…

> I think this narrowly focuses on transgressions against journos.

While the police are (in theory) subject to the same laws as everyone else that ban assault and battery, they are approximately never enforced against cops, and the US constitution doesn't say anything specifically about the right to not get beat up by the police (although that right certainly exists).

It does say that there are to be no laws abridging the freedom of the press. Additionally, press freedoms are really important, as a properly functioning free press allows people who might not get beat up by the police access to the knowledge that the police are breaking the law and beating people. People don't seem to like it when authority figures act hypocritically, so this is a great tool for exposing their crimes and perhaps causing something to be done about it.

From a consequentialist point of view, it's worse when the police beat journalists than people who aren't documenting cop crimes, because preventing press from publishing about criminal behavior by police increases the likelihood that they will go unpunished.

If we have limited resources to fight them, we should protect those who can accomplish the most in fighting this longstanding police culture of violence, racism, and lies by exposing it for the shameful, dishonorable practice that it is.

Re: Record Breaking Number of Journalists Arrested in the U.S. This Year

#269

Post by aesclepius »

manfredo wrote: post #205
boopmaster wrote: post #128

This is because Black Lives Matter™, and because black lives matter. This isn’t a hyper escalation against freedom of the press, per se, it’s an escalation of police on citizen violence that came about when police felt threatened when folks got a little extra vocal about how the racist cops boys club has little to no accountability when harming citizens they’re supposed to protect. I think this narrowly focuses on tr…

There's a strong argument to be made for police accountability and conduct. But this post seems to complete ignore the actions of demonstrators and the journalists (often self-proclaimed and self-employed) embedded within them. Look at the disparity between Portland and Minneapolis with respect to the rest of the country: New York has 20 times the population yet only half the journalist arrests. Portland has the same…

> Both the data and my lived experiences indicate a correlation between more extreme behavior among protestors and more arrests.

I think there's a false attribution of 'extreme behavior' with 'protestors' primarily. feel there are a significant number of people who took advantage of the protests to loot and burn and generally cause chaos. It's worth noting that Seattle and Portland, are primarily Caucasian (67% taken from OPCD), (77% taken from US Census Data) respectively. I think the looting can be more attributed to a general anarchy/countercultural movement in the PNW as opposed to protestors regarding BLM. It's definitely something that is more complex and requires more research than an off-the-cuff comment could generate.

Re: Record Breaking Number of Journalists Arrested in the U.S. This Year

#270

Post by hutzlibu »

nickff wrote: post #103
phalangion wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it's more of a "if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck." If you call yourself a journalist and have a record of reporting on things, then by this definition you are one. But you can't decide you are a persecuted journalist because you got arrested.

Sure, but at some point you have to define how a duck walks and how it quacks!

Sure, but at some point, you have to start by defining "sure".
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