Silicon Valley exodus: Bay Area tech companies leaving for Texas • Hacker News Board

Re: Silicon Valley exodus: Bay Area tech companies leaving for Texas

#511

Post by crakhamster01 » Tue, Dec 15, 2020, 7:39 PM UTC

pembrook wrote: post #328

vmchale wrote: post #293

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Universities help I think. Stanford, Berkeley &c. Many great public universities and many great universities!

The east coast has entire Ivy League and yet no Silicon Valley. Also, how do you explain Seattle?

If you're a software engineer based out of the NY area, almost every recruiting message you get on LinkedIn will be from a fintech company/bank/hedge fund. NY is probably the second biggest tech hub in the US outside of SV, but most engineers work in one of those aforementioned sectors.

Re: Silicon Valley exodus: Bay Area tech companies leaving for Texas

#512

Post by fortran77 » Tue, Dec 15, 2020, 7:39 PM UTC

pb7 wrote: post #300

fortran77 wrote: post #269

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I bought my Sunnyvale CA house in 1991. I pay $6,000 in property tax. The tax goes up 2%/year. I do not pay $3.50 in taxes. You are, quite frankly, a liar. The median property tax paid by homeowners in NY State -- a state with no "Prop 13" is $5,865 (according to facts I just googled). What, exactly, am I getting away with? How will increasing property taxes in a state with the highest income and sales tax solve the…

How much would you be paying if you bought that same house right now? How will increasing it help? For one, it would have forced you to sell and move since you have limited interest in living there. You’re not entitled to live where you want just because you were born first. Property taxes specifically exist so that there isn’t a perpetual inheritance of land with no incentive to relinquish it.

> You’re not entitled to live where you want just because you were born first.

And you're not entitled to send men from the government to take my house. (As was done to my grandparents in 1929. See: https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/history-of-jewish-settl... )

Re: Silicon Valley exodus: Bay Area tech companies leaving for Texas

#513

Post by fortran77 » Tue, Dec 15, 2020, 7:43 PM UTC

bronson wrote: post #304

fortran77 wrote: post #269

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I bought my Sunnyvale CA house in 1991. I pay $6,000 in property tax. The tax goes up 2%/year. I do not pay $3.50 in taxes. You are, quite frankly, a liar. The median property tax paid by homeowners in NY State -- a state with no "Prop 13" is $5,865 (according to facts I just googled). What, exactly, am I getting away with? How will increasing property taxes in a state with the highest income and sales tax solve the…

Your Sunnyvale house is worth significantly more than the median house price in NY State. Your post confirms that Prop 13 is very good for long-term homeowners. What are you getting away with? Paying less for schools and common infrastructure than your neighbors who bought in the last decade. They're probably paying 3X more tax than you are, right?

It's still a 3/2 house. An equivalent house on, say Long Island, would have lower taxes.

Re: Silicon Valley exodus: Bay Area tech companies leaving for Texas

#514

Post by aerosmile » Tue, Dec 15, 2020, 7:44 PM UTC

ak217 wrote: post #384

aerosmile wrote: post #270

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> with the exception of Hawaii, which actually has perfect weather Hawaii gets 70 inches of rain per year, and LA gets 15. While there's no denying the natural beauty of Hawaii, saying that it has perfect weather is a matter of personal taste. > The 50 square miles of SF has perfect weather, if you're not put off by cold and clingy fog. What does this even mean? SF is 7 miles in diameter, and the various foggy microc…

> What does this even mean? I hate to be pedantic, but you're misreading the parent post (they didn't say "diameter" nor "perimeter" and neither really makes sense in this context) and then being confrontational based on your misreading. You and the parent post both have good points otherwise, best to keep it a friendly discussion.

I missed the "square" in the "square mile" phrase and thought the OP was referring to a distance (hence my reference to Palo Alto) and not area - my bad.

Re: Silicon Valley exodus: Bay Area tech companies leaving for Texas

#515

Post by jcranmer » Tue, Dec 15, 2020, 7:47 PM UTC

jcranmer wrote: post #307

aerosmile wrote: post #270

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> with the exception of Hawaii, which actually has perfect weather Hawaii gets 70 inches of rain per year, and LA gets 15. While there's no denying the natural beauty of Hawaii, saying that it has perfect weather is a matter of personal taste. > The 50 square miles of SF has perfect weather, if you're not put off by cold and clingy fog. What does this even mean? SF is 7 miles in diameter, and the various foggy microc…

> Hawaii gets 70 inches of rain per year, and LA gets 15. That varies dramatically based on where you are in Hawaii. The prominent mountain ridges produce very sharp rain shadows; Hilo (on the windward side of the Big Island) gets 126" per year, but Kona (on the leeward side) is more like 19". Most people would live in the Honolulu region, which is on the windward (hence drier) side of Oahu.

> the windward (hence drier) side

I noticed this too late to edit the comment, but it should actually say "leeward" side, not "windward."

Re: Silicon Valley exodus: Bay Area tech companies leaving for Texas

#516

Post by aerosmile » Tue, Dec 15, 2020, 7:50 PM UTC

jcranmer wrote: post #307

aerosmile wrote: post #270

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> with the exception of Hawaii, which actually has perfect weather Hawaii gets 70 inches of rain per year, and LA gets 15. While there's no denying the natural beauty of Hawaii, saying that it has perfect weather is a matter of personal taste. > The 50 square miles of SF has perfect weather, if you're not put off by cold and clingy fog. What does this even mean? SF is 7 miles in diameter, and the various foggy microc…

> Hawaii gets 70 inches of rain per year, and LA gets 15. That varies dramatically based on where you are in Hawaii. The prominent mountain ridges produce very sharp rain shadows; Hilo (on the windward side of the Big Island) gets 126" per year, but Kona (on the leeward side) is more like 19". Most people would live in the Honolulu region, which is on the windward (hence drier) side of Oahu.

Talk about micro climates!

Re: Silicon Valley exodus: Bay Area tech companies leaving for Texas

#517

Post by giantg2 » Tue, Dec 15, 2020, 7:55 PM UTC

corpMaverick wrote: post #505

giantg2 wrote: post #383

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"I totally agree and I think property taxes are way more fair and equitable for a society than income taxes." Until you retire and no longer can pay the tax and are kicked out of your home. Logically, it makes more sense to tax people who are actually making money (income and capital gains) since that means they actually have money. Taxing people on a fundamental need (shelter) could potentially increase homelessness…

After retirement you have the option to downsize your home.

There's only so far you can downsize. Some of the people being kicked out are lower income and already live in modest homes.

I guess you could also make the argument that you must relocate to cheaper areas, leaving behind your friends and family.

The real question is any if that is "right". Should we force people out of a home that they own or make them move out of the region they lived in, in some case for 30-50 years?

Re: Silicon Valley exodus: Bay Area tech companies leaving for Texas

#518

Post by dcolkitt » Tue, Dec 15, 2020, 8:00 PM UTC

Retric wrote: post #472

dcolkitt wrote: post #393

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> taxes give linear returns which is why they can be ignored for years This isn't true at all. The effect of taxes compound just like anything else. E.g. if Warren Buffet had originally incorporated Berkshire as a Bermuda-based reinsurer, he'd be worth over $400 billion today. If he didn't structure it as an insurer at all he'd only be worth $20 billion. Tax savings compound at whatever the long-term ROE of the corpo…

When you’re growing at even 10% per month the difference between 50Billion and 400 billion in 50 years is a rounding error on a rounding error. Further, diminishing returns means your stuck investing in ever less profitable operations as you grow. These will often lose money, just look at say Microsoft or Google to see how little an extra 100 billion 10 years ago would give them now. Nobody is saying they don’t have…

Corporate entities have to make quarterly payments. Let's assume you're a $10 million company with 10% monthly ROE/growth. Paying an additional 9% in California corporate tax rates will result in the loss of a billion in market cap within five years. Literally a third of the terminal value of the startup.

Point taken about diminishing marginal returns. But you can see that even taking that into account, the impact of lax tax planning for shareholders is humongous. (Plus many startups are in winner-take-all markets, and effectively have increasing returns to scale.)

The opportunity cost is real. Tax arbitrage will take some amount of bandwidth. But it often takes much less effort to raise cash by minimizing taxes than it does to raise additional equity funding. The former can mostly be done by the CFO in the background, whereas the latter requires the attention of the founders.

Re: Silicon Valley exodus: Bay Area tech companies leaving for Texas

#519

Post by lern_too_spel » Tue, Dec 15, 2020, 8:03 PM UTC

jelliclesfarm wrote: post #493

lern_too_spel wrote: post #479

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The intended purpose was to keep seniors and retirees in their homes without the danger of them being made homeless due to the speculative nature of California housing market whose instability is largely contributed to the said feted ‘new comers’. That was the stated objective given to economically illiterate voters but not the intended purpose. Those property owners can be targeted with tax exemptions without the…

what exactly is 'economically illiterate'. i cant take anything you wrote seriously until you explain this made up word wrt this talking point. if you are talking about the exemption given to the children who inherit property and the prop 13 benefits along with it, i am in agreement. i am also in cautious agreement with prop 13 being amended when it comes to commercial properties. any prop 13 amendment that adversely…

> what exactly is 'economically illiterate'. i cant take anything you wrote seriously until you explain this made up word

Have you heard of financial literacy or scientific literacy? Economic literacy is similar. I am using the English language in a very straightforward manner.

> the notion that high taxes will somehow benefit the state is a very ill thought out plan.

Who said anything about increasing total state revenue? After Prop 13 passed, a big chunk of the state revenue was tied up in propping up local governments. By undoing the damage of this highly regressive policy, the state will have the ability to reduce regressive taxes and even income taxes. It will also encourage development (new property developers will no longer be disadvantaged vs. existing landowners), bringing in more money (and reducing blight) and reducing the need to tax individual earners even more.

Re: Silicon Valley exodus: Bay Area tech companies leaving for Texas

#520

Post by jcranmer » Tue, Dec 15, 2020, 8:18 PM UTC

aerosmile wrote: post #516

jcranmer wrote: post #307

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Hawaii gets 70 inches of rain per year, and LA gets 15. That varies dramatically based on where you are in Hawaii. The prominent mountain ridges produce very sharp rain shadows; Hilo (on the windward side of the Big Island) gets 126" per year, but Kona (on the leeward side) is more like 19". Most people would live in the Honolulu region, which is on the windward (hence drier) side of Oahu.

Talk about micro climates!

It's a bit hard to call it a microclimate when you're talking about places 60 miles apart, and the ring road peaks at ~2800' if you take the north way via Waimea or ~4000' if you take the south way via Kilauea, or ~6600' if you take the Saddle Road between Mauna Loa and Mauna Kea. There is, after all, a 13000' mountain in between the two sides of the Big Island.