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Silicon Valley exodus: Bay Area tech companies leaving for Texas

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Re: Silicon Valley exodus: Bay Area tech companies leaving for Texas

#481
post #52

People really want to see California and silicon valley fail. Crab mentality I think, people love these articles

Why do you think this is? I find it really bizarre. My own family in the Midwest kind of passive aggressively implies that they hope I “feel the effect” of these “oppressive laws” and I’m out here shooting guns, enjoying the desert on HOVs, and visiting Yosemite to bask in the beauty. Oppression seems like the last thing I’ve found here, honestly. Like what grinds people’s gears so hard about CA? Really would love a…

> Really would love a clear answer

It's astonishing that you don't understand this, but I'll assume your question is in good faith.

It's because "Silicon Valley" doesn't actually produce etched silicon anymore, or really anything of actual value to humanity, at all. In fact, it's become a net negative for the rest of humanity.

It spends the most valuable IQ points this planet has on endless ad click optimization, addictive social media experiences that induce mass depression, and finding novel ways to censor non-mainstream opinions.

There is no value-add, and there hasn't been for two decades. I suppose Cupertino can lay some small claim to actually advancing humanity with their silicon design, but at the cost of the rest of the company inventing ways to ensure that humans are passive consumers of Apple Credit Cards and Apple TV instead of actually advancing us somewhere other than Idiocracy or Wall-E.

Meanwhile, there are very real and very tangible risks to our very existence that SV ignores because of mathematically flawed assumptions about the actual physical limits to photovoltaics, energy storage, or absurd notions such as "vertical farming". If Wired or The Atlantic prints a glowing story on a 19 year old who will solve resource constraints and climate change, well then, by God they're going to do it. Faith is all you need. Math and reality can GTFO.

What's really hilarious is that HN, at least monthly, gets an article posted and upvoted about how toxic and infantile and terrible SV is, but lessons are never learned because anything that interferes with the income stream necessary to maintain the narrative bubble is mere curiosity.

You even asking this question is indicative of a problem: specifically the problem that you are NOT actually ignorant of the answer. You read the answer on your own echo chamber regularly. Rather, you choose to disregard it and instead regard the people earnestly answering it as trolls, or proles, or some other ignoble fool whose response can be easily forgotten.

As it is that this response will be forgotten. Because introspection is inconvenient, and flyover rubes are beneath you.

Re: Silicon Valley exodus: Bay Area tech companies leaving for Texas

#482

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thank you! That would make property taxes in Austin need to be 3 * 1.2 or 3.6, which is double what they actually are. So people in SF pay basically double property tax of people in Austin for their houses, excluding the fact that houses in Austin are much larger.

You are just continuing to make numbers up in every post you make. Why not just google it? Here are the real numbers: https://www.austinchamber.com/economic-development/taxes-inc...

I did.

But using your link, at Travis county (2.2267), once again, it'd need to 3.6% to be equivalent levels of absolute tax paid as SF.

It's effectively 2.2267/3.6 (62%). It doesn't matter really how you slice this, because it's not subtle. People in Austin pay way less property tax than people in SF on equivalent housing, even before other taxes (only in SF) are taken into account.

Re: Silicon Valley exodus: Bay Area tech companies leaving for Texas

#483
post #16

HP and Oracle don’t exactly represent the heart of Silicon Valley today and what makes it special/unique. I actually think zombie corporations like Oracle, companies that haven’t innovated in decades and instead rely on an army of sales people to sell legacy software, are somewhat the antithesis of Silicon Valley which is really about real technological innovation and disruption at it’s core. I know there are lots of…

It may have more to do with cost structure. FAANGs have a willingness to pay much higher salaries, even if they could've hired for less than half the cost elsewhere so it makes more sense for them to be in the bay area, especially since those are super high margin businesses. YOu'll notice that Amazon, a business where margins are important is notably absent from the bay area.

Re: Silicon Valley exodus: Bay Area tech companies leaving for Texas

#484

The real state I wonder about is Illinois. Who the hell wants to live in Illinois? Both the state income tax and property tax is absurd and you can easily cross state lines to somewhere cheaper with pretty much the same scenery.

Illinois is pretty rough financially, I agree. But it's home to one of the three cities you can realistically live in and call a city in the US. As in no car ownership required, walkable neighborhoods that you never need to leave very often as all your needs are met, etc. This is exceedingly rare in the US, almost non-existent.

So for now, I'll stick with Chicago. Should I move, I completely agree the IL suburbs are completely pointless - I can get the same quality of life cheaper almost anywhere in the US. A suburb is a suburb after all, so things like tax rates and property value are all you really need to make much of a decision on.

Re: Silicon Valley exodus: Bay Area tech companies leaving for Texas

#485

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The political climate in California is astonishingly toxic and disconnected from the realities of the market. I for one cannot wait to leave this place for greener pastures. California's answer to everything is raise taxes. And everyone cheers. And nothing gets fixed.

The trick is, will those voting for taxes to be raised do the same when they relocate elsewhere? California is not a dictatorship. The people of the state have voted for this situation. I realize that not everyone in California votes and thinks the same. Those leaving the state might not be reflective of the voting patterns of the state as a whole but doubt this migration out of California is impactless on the places…

Yes, that is a big problem. People don't seem to learn their lesson. CA peoples leave CA and go to austin and we're already seeing some of the same things happening there as in CA, where housing supply is restricted and of course, at that point housing prices go up again.

People just never learn the fundamentals of economics and how those decisions lead to economic hardship for so many, that's the real problem.

Re: Silicon Valley exodus: Bay Area tech companies leaving for Texas

#486
post #460

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What do you think happens in most other states with normal property taxes? Do you think people just continuously get pushed out of their homes because of local taxes? It's pretty rare even in extremely high property tax counties like Cook and DuPage here in Illinois.

I am (not American) trying to see how framing this as getting pushed out of your house is better than saying 'being able to sell your house for a huge gain' is better. Yes this means folks will have to move, but again as cities grow and shape themselves, is it even the same place people have in mind that they started in? May be my attitude is colored by my immigrant status though - I was willing to pack up and move,…

You are right, the bias is with these frontier-minded Americans that cannot see land as a collective good, and selling with a huge profit no hardship.

Re: Silicon Valley exodus: Bay Area tech companies leaving for Texas

#487

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not to go too off the rails, but they only “contributed to the decline” by being a better option for customers that switched from small businesses in rural areas to Walmart. A lot of small businesses are bad. Bad hours, bad selection of products, bad customer service, bad prices. They’re often held up in some idyllic form, but it’s clear from the behavior of their own customers that Walmart provides these customers m…

They're held up in some idyllic form because while they're worse for customers, they're on average much better for employees. 'Small business' isn't just meant to be heartwarming when talked about as important - small businesses also spend a much larger percentage of their money on wages.

This feels like a false dichotomy to me (if it’s true which I’m not certain of).

It’s not very good for employees if your small business customers don’t like you and as a result you have to close.

A local car dealership may be great for its employees by ripping off customers and generally being a terrible experience, but I won’t have much sympathy when direct to consumer sales come and wipe them out.

Small businesses need to offer something of value to customers that’s real and differentiated as opposed to a narrative of their own self interest. In short - they have to be competitive. There’s no reason they can’t do this while also being good to employees.

A lot of the complaints I see come across as sour grapes and trying to legislate their existence rather than just being better and caring about what customers want.

At its best capitalism is a force for aligning value and interests between provider and customer. On net this leads to more efficient distribution and better outcomes for the most people.

At its worst it’s rent seeking and leveraging local power over people without choice. Small businesses often fall on that side of the spectrum to me.

Re: Silicon Valley exodus: Bay Area tech companies leaving for Texas

#488

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The east coast has entire Ivy League and yet no Silicon Valley. Also, how do you explain Seattle?

University of Washington is a great university. But it does seem like presence of universities is at most a small factor here.

That's his point, Seattle is a tech center without many major universities.

Re: Silicon Valley exodus: Bay Area tech companies leaving for Texas

#489

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Good for them. American work culture is...well, retarded (I couldn't think of a less offensive term that also describes it well).

Have you visited Asia?

Not as an adult, no.

Re: Silicon Valley exodus: Bay Area tech companies leaving for Texas

#490

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The damage to CA's economy won't come from the has-beens leaving, but the never-will-be's that never happen. It's hard to have a ramen startup when your garage costs a million dollars. SF has been operating on the "Get Big Quick" financial injection model for a while now, so it probably won't stop those types of companies. But we shouldn't pretend that there's been a good environment for the idyllic startup in at lea…

> It's hard to have a ramen startup when your garage costs a million dollars. Word. Peter Thiel had something to say about this - basically, he said that so much of the VC money that a start up would raise would go to rent that it no longer makes sense to start a company in the Bay Area. And those garages in Austin, Nashville, Charlotte, Railegh-Durham, and basically every where else are starting to look very attract…

The rise of remote work has been pushed forward hard by the pandemic which means that new companies with a modern and enlightened structure will have minimal need for facilities and offices. The servers are in the cloud and employees can sublet rooms to keep rent minimal.

The resource metric that really counts is talent. That probably means there will be more of NorCal, BosWash, Texas, and Rust Belt all getting involved and contributing whenever there is a truly significant effort.

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