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Silicon Valley exodus: Bay Area tech companies leaving for Texas

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Re: Silicon Valley exodus: Bay Area tech companies leaving for Texas

#381

Post by bradlys »

abernard1 wrote: post #340
function_seven wrote: post #326

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The property tax being double is still cheaper when the housing costs are 1/3 though, right? I guess if you Prop 13'd your way into a low assessment, then the math doesn't quite work that way, but for someone who bought a Bay Area house recently, then moved to Texas, the net difference is still a tax reduction.

A major tax reduction. Austin property taxes are 1.8%. SF property taxes are 0.65%. For it to breakeven, just on property tax, Austin property taxes on a house 1/3 the cost of an SF house would have to be 3*0.65 or 1.95%. So people in Austin effectively pay less or the same on property tax than people in San Francisco. I might add, house prices in Austin/Dallas/Houston are often less than 1/3rd the price of houses in…

Source on sf property taxes being 0.6%? Most places I see in Bay Area are 1.1-1.6%.

Re: Silicon Valley exodus: Bay Area tech companies leaving for Texas

#382

Post by abernard1 »

bradlys wrote: post #381
abernard1 wrote: post #340

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A major tax reduction. Austin property taxes are 1.8%. SF property taxes are 0.65%. For it to breakeven, just on property tax, Austin property taxes on a house 1/3 the cost of an SF house would have to be 3*0.65 or 1.95%. So people in Austin effectively pay less or the same on property tax than people in San Francisco. I might add, house prices in Austin/Dallas/Houston are often less than 1/3rd the price of houses in…

Source on sf property taxes being 0.6%? Most places I see in Bay Area are 1.1-1.6%.

I took the lowest number I could find.

Double how bad it is for the Bay Area then relative to Austin.

Property taxes in Austin (not to mention how cheap Houston, Dallas are) are not even as expensive as the Bay Area. That's not even considering income taxes or no capital gains.

Re: Silicon Valley exodus: Bay Area tech companies leaving for Texas

#383

Post by giantg2 »

ylhert wrote: post #363
njarboe wrote: post #330

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which is great. A high property tax keeps the price of housing down (what people will pay for a house is cost per month, basically mortgage plus property tax), makes people want to have new housing built so that housing prices don't go up, and promotes a general attitude of anti-NIMBYism. Just the opposite of California with its low property tax and very aristocratic prop 13 problem.

I totally agree and I think property taxes are way more fair and equitable for a society than income taxes. Usually we tax behaviors we want to curb. Income taxes disincentivize people from earning more, whereas property taxes are a consumption tax. In my mind this makes way more sense, and there's good data to suggest property taxes are the best/most efficient way to gain needed revenue for a city but do the least "…

"I totally agree and I think property taxes are way more fair and equitable for a society than income taxes."

Until you retire and no longer can pay the tax and are kicked out of your home.

Logically, it makes more sense to tax people who are actually making money (income and capital gains) since that means they actually have money. Taxing people on a fundamental need (shelter) could potentially increase homelessness, especially if you hit a rough time economically like with the pandemic.

"Income taxes disincentivize people from earning more"

I don't see how flat or even marginal income taxes disincentivize people from making more money.

Re: Silicon Valley exodus: Bay Area tech companies leaving for Texas

#384

Post by ak217 »

aerosmile wrote: post #270
kibwen wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The 50 square miles of SF has perfect weather, if you're not put off by cold and clingy fog. The other 160,000 square miles is as much of a mixed bag as any other state (with the exception of Hawaii, which actually has perfect weather).

> with the exception of Hawaii, which actually has perfect weather Hawaii gets 70 inches of rain per year, and LA gets 15. While there's no denying the natural beauty of Hawaii, saying that it has perfect weather is a matter of personal taste. > The 50 square miles of SF has perfect weather, if you're not put off by cold and clingy fog. What does this even mean? SF is 7 miles in diameter, and the various foggy microc…

> What does this even mean?

I hate to be pedantic, but you're misreading the parent post (they didn't say "diameter" nor "perimeter" and neither really makes sense in this context) and then being confrontational based on your misreading. You and the parent post both have good points otherwise, best to keep it a friendly discussion.

Re: Silicon Valley exodus: Bay Area tech companies leaving for Texas

#385

Post by francisofascii »

almost_usual wrote: post #346
paloaltokid wrote: post #341

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you never been to Chicago? Pretty nice town.

Yes, and Cook County has a property tax rate that is nearly 2x San Francisco county.

Which is a good thing. Higher property taxes leads to lower, more realistic real estate prices for new buyers. See Prop 13.

Re: Silicon Valley exodus: Bay Area tech companies leaving for Texas

#386

Post by kbar13 »

abernard1 wrote: post #340
function_seven wrote: post #326

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The property tax being double is still cheaper when the housing costs are 1/3 though, right? I guess if you Prop 13'd your way into a low assessment, then the math doesn't quite work that way, but for someone who bought a Bay Area house recently, then moved to Texas, the net difference is still a tax reduction.

A major tax reduction. Austin property taxes are 1.8%. SF property taxes are 0.65%. For it to breakeven, just on property tax, Austin property taxes on a house 1/3 the cost of an SF house would have to be 3*0.65 or 1.95%. So people in Austin effectively pay less or the same on property tax than people in San Francisco. I might add, house prices in Austin/Dallas/Houston are often less than 1/3rd the price of houses in…

sf property tax is 1.2

Re: Silicon Valley exodus: Bay Area tech companies leaving for Texas

#387

Post by bradlys »

kelp wrote: post #329
gedy wrote: post #261

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Prop 13 is one of the few reasons many could consider staying in California, vs having to pay property taxes on the bubble prices here. Property taxes do go up at what amounts to reasonable inflation numbers.

The most compelling argument I’ve heard in favor of continuing prop 13, from a good policy perspective is that it lets people stay in their homes. But couldn’t we achieve the same thing by means testing property taxes? As it is now, the tax rate is set basically based on how long you’ve owned your property. I could be making $$$ and pay very very little. While my neighbor who bought more recently but earns less pays…

Most repeals of prop 13 would still include the widowed grandma clause that prop 13 was sold on. It would just get rid of some profits for the landlord class.

Re: Silicon Valley exodus: Bay Area tech companies leaving for Texas

#388

Post by bluedevil2k »

cam0 wrote: post #325
bluedevil2k wrote: post #323

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Very true - here in Round Rock (outside Austin), it’s about 2.2% of the home value.

For quick comparison it's 1.18% in San Francisco. Property tax bill on a $2.7m house in SF is ~$32,400/yr, and the property tax bill on a $1.5m house in Austin would be around ~$33,000/yr.

There aren’t many $1.5M houses in Austin. In Round Rock (home of Dell), the highest price you’ll find is around $800k for a 5600 square ft house with premium upgrades.

Re: Silicon Valley exodus: Bay Area tech companies leaving for Texas

#389

Post by reportingsjr »

abernard1 wrote: post #368
SmokeyHamster wrote: post #292

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He's opening new Tesla facilities in Texas, but currently he hasn't formally announced he's completely pulling operations out of Texas, although he's threatened to in the past.

He made some very suggestive comments last week about Tesla being the last manufacturer of cars in CA. I might add, the size of the Austin gigafactory is larger than the size of all Tesla factories in the world combined [1]. I will leave you to do the math if Tesla leaving CA isn't a possibility. [1] https://electrek.co/2020/07/30/tesla-gigafactory-texas-crazy...

That size comparison doesn't actually show a comparison. It only has the footprints for the other factories, and the entirety of the land purchase for the texas factory. What a bizarre thing!

If you look at the planning documents you'll see that the planned footprint for the texas factory is probably a similar size to the plans for the rest of their "giga" factories. https://electrek.co/wp-content/uploads/sites/3/2020/09/Tesla...

Re: Silicon Valley exodus: Bay Area tech companies leaving for Texas

#390

Post by bradlys »

gedy wrote: post #317
jeffbee wrote: post #285

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Prop 13 caused the bubble in the first place.

No, Prop 13 was in response to people being "taxed out of their homes" . Inflation, low interest rates, and turning homes into an "investment" did more to make the bubble.

Almost no one was being taxed out of their homes. A real estate tycoon was the reason the bill passed.
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