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The Man with the Golden Airline Ticket (2019)

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Re: The Man with the Golden Airline Ticket (2019)

#11

Post by cletus »

American Airlines did this at a time when they needed to raise capital (when it was otherwise difficult to do so) so it solved a problem for them. And no one really foresaw how it would be (an)used.

But these pricing models are dumb because they create the incentive to invalidate the pass. And that was inevitable.

The problem here is that the airline invalidated the passes for behavior they enabled such as making multiple bookings at the same time (ie booking agents would tell them to do this and make the bookings for them).

Also I know selling your commission seat or transferring the pass was against TOS but one example quoted here of approaching people at the gate to use the companion fare wasn’t against TOS AFAIK as long as no money changed hands.

Also it’s worth pointing out that these passes cost serious coin back in the day.

Re: The Man with the Golden Airline Ticket (2019)

#12

Post by herbertl »

cletus wrote: post #11

American Airlines did this at a time when they needed to raise capital (when it was otherwise difficult to do so) so it solved a problem for them. And no one really foresaw how it would be (an)used. But these pricing models are dumb because they create the incentive to invalidate the pass. And that was inevitable. The problem here is that the airline invalidated the passes for behavior they enabled such as making mul…

Definitely... At an abstract level, it reminds me of "Unlimited is like a Ponzi Scheme" https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25406072

Re: The Man with the Golden Airline Ticket (2019)

#13

Post by JoeAltmaier »

Its definitely a first-world problem.

But I noted, he never made his own reservation on a computer, ever. He used the same booking agent his whole life. So all his tickets were arranged by AA themselves, with full knowledge.

How can it be fraud, when they were full partners in the deal?

Re: The Man with the Golden Airline Ticket (2019)

#14

Post by ballenf »

JoeAltmaier wrote: post #13

Its definitely a first-world problem. But I noted, he never made his own reservation on a computer, ever. He used the same booking agent his whole life. So all his tickets were arranged by AA themselves, with full knowledge. How can it be fraud, when they were full partners in the deal?

Just like fraud in any other contractual agreement. He said he'd not do X and then did X which resulted in his unjust enrichment and/or extra expense to the other side.

Not saying it happened, but "you should have/could have stopped me from violating the contract" is not a defense to fraud.

Re: The Man with the Golden Airline Ticket (2019)

#15

Post by aj7 »

I’d reiterate that he paid $150k for the right to have an empty seat next to him, give it away, etc.

This guy is my age. I knew a number of guys like this in college; operators, business majors at MIT in high stakes poker games in the cafeteria, people who use their brains for an edge in zero sum games, rather than other things. I would not have been this guys friend; I have a strong distaste for this sort of person. But what he did was not wrong. He made a calculation that any wealthy business guy could make, but few did, and got a few million return on an up-front $400k cash investment. And he didn’t know how, or couldn’t afford to hire the right representation when his counterparty decided to welsh on the deal.

Re: The Man with the Golden Airline Ticket (2019)

#16

Post by eloisant »

ballenf wrote: post #14
JoeAltmaier wrote: post #13

Its definitely a first-world problem. But I noted, he never made his own reservation on a computer, ever. He used the same booking agent his whole life. So all his tickets were arranged by AA themselves, with full knowledge. How can it be fraud, when they were full partners in the deal?

Just like fraud in any other contractual agreement. He said he'd not do X and then did X which resulted in his unjust enrichment and/or extra expense to the other side. Not saying it happened, but "you should have/could have stopped me from violating the contract" is not a defense to fraud.

From what I've read in the article the contract wasn't very clear about what was allowed and what wasn't.

Re: The Man with the Golden Airline Ticket (2019)

#17

Post by c0nsumer »

aj7 wrote: post #15

I’d reiterate that he paid $150k for the right to have an empty seat next to him, give it away, etc. This guy is my age. I knew a number of guys like this in college; operators, business majors at MIT in high stakes poker games in the cafeteria, people who use their brains for an edge in zero sum games, rather than other things. I would not have been this guys friend; I have a strong distaste for this sort of person.…

"...welsh on the deal."?

I imagine you aren't aware, but in the future you may wish to pick a different word. The root of this phrase is the ethnic stereotype that the Welsh -- people of Wales -- are not to be trusted.

Re: The Man with the Golden Airline Ticket (2019)

#18

Post by CapitalistCartr »

aj7 wrote: post #15

I’d reiterate that he paid $150k for the right to have an empty seat next to him, give it away, etc. This guy is my age. I knew a number of guys like this in college; operators, business majors at MIT in high stakes poker games in the cafeteria, people who use their brains for an edge in zero sum games, rather than other things. I would not have been this guys friend; I have a strong distaste for this sort of person.…

Your comment is an excellent analysis of the article. I suggest in the future you choose a different idiom for reneging than "To Welsh".

Re: The Man with the Golden Airline Ticket (2019)

#19

Post by j7ake »

I feel it’s very hard to game these sort of benefits these days because they will have some legalise in the contract that will put a limit or reserve right to revoke the benefit for any reason.

Is there anything similar today that one can purchase and get life time benefits like this? I feel the life of companies are so short that “life time” actually means less than 10 years.

Re: The Man with the Golden Airline Ticket (2019)

#20

Post by iamflimflam1 »

c0nsumer wrote: post #17
aj7 wrote: post #15

I’d reiterate that he paid $150k for the right to have an empty seat next to him, give it away, etc. This guy is my age. I knew a number of guys like this in college; operators, business majors at MIT in high stakes poker games in the cafeteria, people who use their brains for an edge in zero sum games, rather than other things. I would not have been this guys friend; I have a strong distaste for this sort of person.…

"...welsh on the deal."? I imagine you aren't aware, but in the future you may wish to pick a different word. The root of this phrase is the ethnic stereotype that the Welsh -- people of Wales -- are not to be trusted.

Bit of background here:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-33238925

Origins of the term is disputed.

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