Europe's Biggest Vertical Farm Will Be Powered by Wind and Planted by Robots • Hacker News Board

Re: Europe's Biggest Vertical Farm Will Be Powered by Wind and Planted by Robots

#221

Post by DrAwdeOccarim » Tue, Dec 15, 2020, 11:04 AM UTC

jeromenerf wrote: post #64

DrAwdeOccarim wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's likely only genetics that determine taste. Abiotic Soil contents probably have no contribution.

Genetics defines a potential not an outcome, so it lets us with defining the methods to leverage this potential. Moreover, our taste is only loosely related to the plant optimum. Some prefer sweetness, acidity, softness, juicyness ... The soil, undersoil and climate have great impact on naturally grown plants. See wine.

It would be interesting to ask someone to taste-test hydroponic tomatoes vs soil tomatoes. My guess is no one can tell the difference, and in fact hydroponic probably tastes better. So yes, genetics only define a potential in a pedantic definition but those genes only need light, CO2, nitrogen, phosphorus, and trace metals to affect life.

As for the wine argument, I really can't tell the difference between two buck chuck and a $250 bottle of wine and I'd venture a guess that neither can most people (ok, maybe two buck chuck is a little too low on the quality pole). As for molecular content, I'm sure the grapes that go into a choice pinot noir would sustain life just as efficiently as the red grapes in my grocery store.

Re: Europe's Biggest Vertical Farm Will Be Powered by Wind and Planted by Robots

#222

Post by jeromenerf » Tue, Dec 15, 2020, 11:54 AM UTC

DrAwdeOccarim wrote: post #221

jeromenerf wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Genetics defines a potential not an outcome, so it lets us with defining the methods to leverage this potential. Moreover, our taste is only loosely related to the plant optimum. Some prefer sweetness, acidity, softness, juicyness ... The soil, undersoil and climate have great impact on naturally grown plants. See wine.

It would be interesting to ask someone to taste-test hydroponic tomatoes vs soil tomatoes. My guess is no one can tell the difference, and in fact hydroponic probably tastes better. So yes, genetics only define a potential in a pedantic definition but those genes only need light, CO2, nitrogen, phosphorus, and trace metals to affect life. As for the wine argument, I really can't tell the difference between two buck c…

Differences in appreciation of food is multi factorial of course. One can produce crap or greatness given the same material, and another could appreciate it or not given personal preference and culture.

Regarding wine, I guess culture plays an important role. Differences between wine grapes grains and table grape grains, is mostly selection and cultural practices. Table grape is grown for volume and freshness, wine grape is grown to be concentrated in sugar and other compounds, with lower yields, higher maturity, etc. Both use lots of pesticides nowadays unfortunately.

As for their capability of sustaining life, I don’t know. Grape was used for fasting and purging traditionally :)

Re: Europe's Biggest Vertical Farm Will Be Powered by Wind and Planted by Robots

#223

Post by ksec » Tue, Dec 15, 2020, 9:15 PM UTC

brnt wrote: post #144

universa1 wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What agriculture really needs is an effective way to make and keep decent soil. Growing up on a farm in Germany, this is just what I would call decent farming and this is not rocket science. The knowledge how to do this is there and imho it does not involve some "tech disruption". Agriculture, at least in Germany, is highly mechanized/technized and in the end it does not matter if you look at conventional/"industri…

I don't know how different Germany is, but here in the Netherlands, it's hard to find farmers who understand what good soil and the meaning of an ecosystem is. They are, apart from a few, industrialists operating a biotech factory for which they've learned the 'recipe' for growing and selling particular crops or livestock.

>it's hard to find farmers who understand what good soil and the meaning of an ecosystem is.

I am not sure if you are referring to specific types of crops, but Netherlands has consistently been the best in Europe if not the best in the world at agriculture. Using nothing but precisely good soil, science and ecosystem. Outpacing yield make in both Canada and even US with GMO. It also has one of the best Bio/Food Tech startup scene.

And they have been doing it for years , before it get reported on by mainstream media [1]. The only thing that is lacking, comparatively speaking is the management, marketing and sales. Where the US companies tends to excel.

[1] https://www.nationalgeographic.com/magazine/2017/09/holland-...

Re: Europe's Biggest Vertical Farm Will Be Powered by Wind and Planted by Robots

#224

Post by KaiserPro » Sat, Dec 19, 2020, 12:28 PM UTC

icoder wrote: post #157

universa1 wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What agriculture really needs is an effective way to make and keep decent soil. Growing up on a farm in Germany, this is just what I would call decent farming and this is not rocket science. The knowledge how to do this is there and imho it does not involve some "tech disruption". Agriculture, at least in Germany, is highly mechanized/technized and in the end it does not matter if you look at conventional/"industri…

I somehow never considered you can just test the soil for nutritions, which is utterly stupid as I do just that with my freshwater aquarium.

I think its more analogous to inspecting the biomedia to see what bacteria are growing there. As you know its important not to wash them with tap water, but you never really know whats growning there, unless it goes wrong and your nitrites spike.

You can buy sponges that have nitrate/nitrite removers in them, but they run out, and have to be replaced. Its far better to grow the bacteria to do that for you.

However its like starting a new tank from scratch, it takes at least a month before you can put even 1/4 the fish in. Its much the same with fields.