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Apple M1 vs. Ryzen 3900X vs. Intel I9 in Software Development

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411–420 of 467 posts

Re: Apple M1 vs. Ryzen 3900X vs. Intel I9 in Software Development

#411
post #219

Many people overstate Apple's achievement, in reality most credit should go to TSMC the company that manufactures the M1 chip. The M1 is a 5nm chip, while the i9 is a 14nm chip! The M1 has about 16b transistor, the i9 has only about half of that amount. Apple's only achievement here was to make a deal with TSMC in order to be the first one to use their 5nm technology.

> Apple's only achievement here was to make a deal with TSMC So Microsoft could just fly to Taiwan, hand over a few billion and magically they have an M1 chip. I wish we could all live in your delusional fantasy world because life sounds easy there.

My point here is not to deny the achievement of creating your own chip design, but rather demystify how the M1 achieves its performance, and I believe it has mainly to do with TSMC's 5nm technology and the huge number of transistors. If you look up here https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transistor_count You'll see that the M1 is the first CPU/GPU (for computers) to use 5nm and one of the biggest by transistor count. Considering those facts I think it is very unfair to claim that the M1 is faster only because of some Apple magic. The Ryzen used in this test is also made by TSMC but using a 7nm process. According to TSMC moving from 7nm to 5nm means 84% more transistors for the same chip size with a 15% speed improvement or a 30% lower power consumption.

Re: Apple M1 vs. Ryzen 3900X vs. Intel I9 in Software Development

#412
post #205

Considering that Apple won't sell their chips to anybody else, and the M2, M3, Mn could be increasingly faster than the x86 chips, how long before we start moving along this path? 1. Amazon, Google, Microsoft start building their own chips for their own clouds. The most efficient chip could translate into the cheapest cloud, or the fastest one at the same price. Their choice. 2. There will be N somewhat compatible AR…

What utter nonsense. Different ARM chips aren't "somewhat compatible" anymore than Intel/AMD x86 chips. It's a standard instruction set. And even if we'd get different instruction sets, we have much better toolchains/compilers to work with multiple architectures now than we did in "the home computing landscape of the 80s / early 90s" (GCC and LLVM aren't really comparable to Sinclair Basic). The M1 has been out for a…

> And even if we'd get different instruction sets, we have much better toolchains/compilers to work with multiple architectures now than we did in "the home computing landscape of the 80s / early 90s" (GCC and LLVM aren't really comparable to Sinclair Basic).

I would add that mac osx does have universal binaries for some years.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universal_binary

Re: Apple M1 vs. Ryzen 3900X vs. Intel I9 in Software Development

#413
post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just a quick note, the MacBook Air is by no means "ultralight" even by Apple standards, 2017 MacBook for example was more than twice lighter. Thinkpad laptops are also measurably lighter than any current generation MacBook.

Yes, Apple's current lineup is a little confusing. The 13" Pro and 13" Air are so similar, and almost the same weight. I still use a 12" MacBook, and it's just amazingly small and light. If Apple makes a 12" MacBook with a M1, it would be awesome. A dream machine for me.

> If Apple makes a 12" MacBook with a M1, it would be awesome.

I wish Apple would make everything" MacBooks with M1. I hate that I have to wait another year or whatever for a 15/16" screen and will have to pay a measurable weight penalty to get it when nothing stops them from making a 15" ultralight model now that they don't need fans for stunning performance.

Re: Apple M1 vs. Ryzen 3900X vs. Intel I9 in Software Development

#414

I really fear that Linux might get left behind as Apple and Microsoft go after this ARMs-race (pun intended). At least Microsoft requires UEFI with their ARM offerings, but often the bootloaders are locked. I love Linux and I love running it natively. Currently I can grab almost any Dell, HP, Lenovo, MSI, etc. desktop/laptop and there's a very good chance all the hardware will work with mainline Linux. If I get a lap…

Do we need to push legislation to ensure unlocked bootloaders? Or even a "click this box to void your warranty and unlock the bootloader".

Re: Apple M1 vs. Ryzen 3900X vs. Intel I9 in Software Development

#415

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How would one benchmark memory performance (DRAM latency & bandwidth) on the various chips?

Above my pay grade! You probably operating with a fixed speed on M1 so you can't intentionally cripple it, but it would be interesting to see "What would this look like if Apple had paired it with standard DDR4-3200?". AMD's Zen core's are known to respond well to lower latency RAM, but in the PC space you're not getting anything close to what Apple has with the LPDDR4x on package. You could try benchmarking the Inte…

> but in the PC space you're not getting anything close to what Apple has with the LPDDR4x on package.

You can run basically any Intel CPU at DDR4-4266 without any issue. Or you can go thread ripper and laugh in quad channel memory. Or Intel x299 and triple-channel memory.

You don't have to tune anything, either, the RAM comes pre-tuned with the right timings in the XMP profile.

Re: Apple M1 vs. Ryzen 3900X vs. Intel I9 in Software Development

#416
post #237

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> more than twice lighter. Under half the weight?

Non-native English speakers (depending on their native language) will often use phrases like that. As that is how they say it in their native language.

Plenty of native speakers too, I've been hearing it all my life. "Twice as cheap" is another.

Re: Apple M1 vs. Ryzen 3900X vs. Intel I9 in Software Development

#417

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Same for me. I have a Ryzen 5 and it feels about 3x faster than anything else in the house, and it's not even the most expensive chip in the house. Next year definitely getting another Amd chip to upgrade my now old ryzen 5. Not touching Intel again in a long time.

Me too. I did a test rust compile to quantify the difference. A project that takes 2 minutes on my old 2016 MacBook Pro takes 20 seconds on my new ryzen 5800 desktop machine. And everything launches instantly. It’s an absolute breath of fresh air and I love it.

keep in mind that you should not use your 2016 MacBook with an external monitor (without clasmshell)

Re: Apple M1 vs. Ryzen 3900X vs. Intel I9 in Software Development

#418

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What makes you think AMD/Intel can do instant display resolution changes?

What exactly prevents them from doing just that? 3.2 GHz not enough to negotiate screen resolution? HDMI/DP link that M1 produces is some otherworldly HDMI/DP not available to anyone else? I have an example right here, in front of me. I have a Dell monitor. My Macbook Pro is connected to it via Thunderbolt/USB-C->HDMI. My Windows box is connected to it via DP. So, I'm on my Windows box, playing a game. I turn on my M…

You haven't proved it's possible to do any of that on Intel hardware - sleep and display config are both very HW driven. Software can't do everything.

Re: Apple M1 vs. Ryzen 3900X vs. Intel I9 in Software Development

#419
post #338

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Rosetta does quite badly with JITed stuff (notably, it does very, very badly with x86 JVMs). I assume it'll be fine once native Unity is available.

Huh, this is surprising to me. Anecdotally, I tried Minecraft Java under Rosetta on my MBA, and it ran smoothly 2560x1600 resolution at 60 FPS with very few drops. Although I'd imagine that a JITed game might be easier for Rosetta to deal with, as it will be running the same code paths over and over again in comparison to a compiler.

I’ve never played minecraft, but is it generally cpu bound? The GPU is very fast, for a laptop-y thing, so that may be carrying it.

In synthetic tests, Java under Rosetta seems to range from twice to over four times as slow as native arm Java, depending on workload.

Re: Apple M1 vs. Ryzen 3900X vs. Intel I9 in Software Development

#420

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This bit from the article might bring things into focus: > "I add the following comment as of Dec 14: we care how fast our dev computer runs. the multi-core advantage of 3900X is useless for most of the benchmarks here that don't represent the real-world production performance at all but devs usually work on their laptops, desktops, etc most of the time so I think such real-world development performance benchmarks ma…

That explanation doesn't make a lot of sense, though. Like, I mostly do web-dev type stuff these days and my 3900X is alarmingly busy. Background compiles, entirely too many Chromium (or Electron) threads, all my other random running applications--the thing is significantly snappier even than the 2600X I replaced it with, and it's gotten to the point where using a laptop shy of a desktop replacement is pretty aggrava…

I agree. Though much of the writing on this benchmark/ blog seems confusing to me and the charts are all over the place in terms of style as well.
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