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Why are new devices dependent on the Internet but made with little forethought?

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Re: Why are new devices dependent on the Internet but made with little forethought?

#111

Post by ryandrake »

ardy42 wrote: post #90
ryandrake wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually I don’t mind things being controlled by a smartphone over the Internet. That’s nice and convenient. What I object to is things being controlled by a company’s internet service, commanded by the user’s smartphone. One just requires my smartphone, the device and an internet connection, the other adds the company as an unnecessary middleman.

> Actually I don’t mind things being controlled by a smartphone over the Internet. That’s nice and convenient. What I object to is things being controlled by a company’s internet service, commanded by the user’s smartphone. One just requires my smartphone, the device and an internet connection, the other adds the company as an unnecessary middleman. That's not quite right. For all practical purposes, internet control…

> For all practical purposes, internet control also requires a server sitting on a public IP address somewhere

We really need to get over this hurdle. In the ipv4 world, yea, users generally have one public IP and NAT complicates things a little. In the IPv6 world, every device should be publicly addressable and it should just be a firewall rule to make it accessible to your smartphone app. That way, no server is required, so the question of who runs it is moot.

Re: Why are new devices dependent on the Internet but made with little forethought?

#112

Post by ardy42 »

ryandrake wrote: post #111
ardy42 wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Actually I don’t mind things being controlled by a smartphone over the Internet. That’s nice and convenient. What I object to is things being controlled by a company’s internet service, commanded by the user’s smartphone. One just requires my smartphone, the device and an internet connection, the other adds the company as an unnecessary middleman. That's not quite right. For all practical purposes, internet control…

> For all practical purposes, internet control also requires a server sitting on a public IP address somewhere We really need to get over this hurdle. In the ipv4 world, yea, users generally have one public IP and NAT complicates things a little. In the IPv6 world, every device should be publicly addressable and it should just be a firewall rule to make it accessible to your smartphone app. That way, no server is req…

Even with IPv6, you're still in scenario 1 from my list. Also, using it would really only help with carrier-grade NAT. Someone with the amount of skill needed to setup a server probably has the skill setup port forwarding and dynamic DNS on their router.

Which reminds me of the DSL modem/router combo my roommates had gotten in my first apartment before I moved in. The router was MSN and had no local configuration page, all configuration had to be done through some external Microsoft server that didn't work by the time I got there (so I could never do any port forwarding).

Re: Why are new devices dependent on the Internet but made with little forethought?

#113

Post by sliken »

mywittyname wrote: post #47
pas wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most cars are still not Internet connected. And most Internet-enabled cars still run perfectly fine without access to the Internet.

Depending on your definition of "internet connected," I'd disagree with your first point. Most new cars come equipped with the hardware for a data-enabled cellular connection and many have been for years. While it's not a feature you necessarily see or know about, it's there. Presumably, the ones that are used by a service like OnStar are constantly polling in the background to get status updates for the account the…

I have heard of various ride share services stranding folks in the middle of nowhere because of lack of signal.

Not heard a single story of an internet connected car not having basic functionality work without internet.

Re: Why are new devices dependent on the Internet but made with little forethought?

#114

Post by vanilla_nut »

abruzzi wrote: post #54
goodside wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you're overlooking the "on their own" part. The OP isn't lamenting that things are less reliable in general, just that they aren't reliably capable of working offline or on a local network. Phones are maybe an odd example, but it's somewhat true: Traditional phone systems let you make local calls even if long-distance lines fail, or within a building without leaking data externally. Very few people would ever…

heck, POTS line phones can even function with a power loss since they derive their power from the phone line (unless you have a POTS line phone like a cordless where it has to charge a battery and operate a 900mhz connection to the handset.)

As someone who grew up in a town with frequent winter storms that caused power outages, my family's POTS rotary phone was very handy during blackouts.

Re: Why are new devices dependent on the Internet but made with little forethought?

#115

Post by Semaphor »

ardy42 wrote: post #43
Semaphor wrote: post #6

Many or most aren’t. I have a bunch of home automation devices and I’m planning for more. Most of them don’t require any internet connectivity, the only one that does (I still have Alexa connected to Home Assistant, planning to replace her with Rhasspy but didn’t find the time yet) is purely an extra method of controlling things so nothing breaks without internet. I see people buying internet-required devices as the…

> I see people buying internet-required devices as the same people who buy the registry cleaners. They don’t know enough about computers themselves, and the advertorials/computer magazines don’t do them any favors. In some cases, you don't have a choice. As far as I know, all current Roomba models have their schedule programmed via an smartphone app. I don't have one, so I don't know if it exactly requires the intern…

Wow… I have an old Roomba as well, but I was planning on getting another if it ever died completely. In that case I’d simply get another brand.

Re: Why are new devices dependent on the Internet but made with little forethought?

#116

Post by pas »

sliken wrote: post #113
mywittyname wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Depending on your definition of "internet connected," I'd disagree with your first point. Most new cars come equipped with the hardware for a data-enabled cellular connection and many have been for years. While it's not a feature you necessarily see or know about, it's there. Presumably, the ones that are used by a service like OnStar are constantly polling in the background to get status updates for the account the…

I have heard of various ride share services stranding folks in the middle of nowhere because of lack of signal. Not heard a single story of an internet connected car not having basic functionality work without internet.

There was a story about a rental car stopping when it crossed a border, because the rental package was domestic use only.

Re: Why are new devices dependent on the Internet but made with little forethought?

#117

Post by mcguire »

stickfigure wrote: post #49
mcguire wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So you missed the other half of that example? " Now consider current times when your thermostat becomes completely unresponsive in the middle of winter because a vital network goes down. Imagine you're not able to operate your car during a crisis because networks are down? " Something, something, "Please respond to the strongest plausible interpretation of what someone says, not a weaker one that's easier to criticiz…

That statement is also false. I have a Nest thermostat. It works fine without the network. I have a modern car. It works fine without the internet. Several of my friends have Teslas. They work fine offgrid. It's just nonsense. Stop defending it.

Anybody remember Iris?
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