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Apple M1 vs. Ryzen 3900X vs. Intel I9 in Software Development

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Re: Apple M1 vs. Ryzen 3900X vs. Intel I9 in Software Development

#371

Post by africanboy »

djsumdog wrote: post #350

I really fear that Linux might get left behind as Apple and Microsoft go after this ARMs-race (pun intended). At least Microsoft requires UEFI with their ARM offerings, but often the bootloaders are locked. I love Linux and I love running it natively. Currently I can grab almost any Dell, HP, Lenovo, MSI, etc. desktop/laptop and there's a very good chance all the hardware will work with mainline Linux. If I get a lap…

Very important points

We are to a point where we could be forced to trade performances for openness

Re: Apple M1 vs. Ryzen 3900X vs. Intel I9 in Software Development

#372

Post by markstos »

sdflhasjd wrote: post #71

I'm still extremely suspicious of all these benchmarks, because they don't seem to correlate with my real-world experience. All these benchmarks claim to be comparing real-world applications, but I don't trust them because of what they always show with regards to mobile i9 and desktop Ryzen. I've got a Intel Macbook Pro, and a Ryzen desktop. When I'm using them for development, my Ryzen is absolutely wiping the floor…

Share benchmarks of your setup then.

Re: Apple M1 vs. Ryzen 3900X vs. Intel I9 in Software Development

#373

Post by psadauskas »

cesarb wrote: post #259
sdflhasjd wrote: post #71

I'm still extremely suspicious of all these benchmarks, because they don't seem to correlate with my real-world experience. All these benchmarks claim to be comparing real-world applications, but I don't trust them because of what they always show with regards to mobile i9 and desktop Ryzen. I've got a Intel Macbook Pro, and a Ryzen desktop. When I'm using them for development, my Ryzen is absolutely wiping the floor…

Are your real-world applications running on the same operating system? According to a thread on RWT ( https://www.realworldtech.com/forum/?threadid=197081&curpost... ), macOS is much slower than Linux on the same hardware for some tasks like building software. If your Ryzen desktop is running Linux and your Macbook Pro is running macOS, that would be enough to explain at least part of the speed difference.

In my experience of the last several years, the MacOS filesystem layer for lots of tiny files seems to be much slower than Linux. In our app, `rm -rf node_modules` (75,000 files, 1.1GB) takes about 10x longer on MacOS than it does on Linux (btrfs, zfs, ext4 all similar). `yarn install` has a similar difference between the two. I'd imagine most compiling tasks involving lots of tiny files would be impacted by the filesystem performance as well, hamstringing the performance of the M1.

Re: Apple M1 vs. Ryzen 3900X vs. Intel I9 in Software Development

#374

Post by ogre_codes »

FredFS456 wrote: post #243
GeekyBear wrote: post #218

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>There will be N somewhat compatible ARM chips, that is to say they are somewhat incompatible. This isn't how ARM's architecture license works. All ARM implementations are required to pass the same standard test suite. >Architectural licensees get a set of specs and a testing suite that they have to pass, the rest is up to them. If they want to make a processor that is faster, slower, more efficient, smaller, or anyt…

Sure, for the instruction set all the CPUs are required to be compatible. However, Apple seems to be going in the direction of having many many hardware accelerators builtin to their SoC and integrated into their software ecosystem. I assume that if Google and Amazon were to build their own chips, they'd do the same. Those accelerators will not be intercompatible, and we'll have a dozen different vendored drivers, li…

Their specialized audio/ video/ image/ machine learning cores aren't helping with general purpose tasks like building code.

It's also not much different from the PC world where you have video cards and Nvidia's CUDA.

Re: Apple M1 vs. Ryzen 3900X vs. Intel I9 in Software Development

#375

Post by dmitriid »

astrange wrote: post #345
dmitriid wrote: post #297

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not just Electron apps. I've seen people on Twitter gushing about how seamless and flicker-free is switching between screens and resolutions on M1. And yet, there's literally no reason why it can't be done today, now, on the existing hardware. Instant waking from sleep was one of the key points in M1's presentation. Something my 2007 model Macbook Pro could do. But then the subsequent releases of MacOS just couldn't…

What makes you think AMD/Intel can do instant display resolution changes?

What exactly prevents them from doing just that? 3.2 GHz not enough to negotiate screen resolution? HDMI/DP link that M1 produces is some otherworldly HDMI/DP not available to anyone else?

I have an example right here, in front of me. I have a Dell monitor. My Macbook Pro is connected to it via Thunderbolt/USB-C->HDMI. My Windows box is connected to it via DP.

So, I'm on my Windows box, playing a game. I turn on my Macbook Pro, and it shows me a proper resolution on the laptop screen. The laptop sees that the display is on, and I see that many windows are missing because they are on the other screen. So, I switch my display from DP (coming from Windows) to HDMI (coming from my Macbook Pro).

The only thing that changes is the source input to the display.

And yet. Macbook takes up to 10 seconds to renegotiate the resoltion again. First it slowly disconnects from the display, screws up the resolution, brings all the windows to the laptop screen. Then it reconnects to the display, renegotiates the resolution and restores the windows as they are supposed to be.

Why? And what is so magical about the M1 CPU that it seemingly can do this in an instant? There's nothing magical: whoever implements all this crap simply doesn't care. And in a couple of years M1 (or M1 X Pro whatever) will forget how to to that just as MacOS forgot how it could instantly wake up from sleep 12 years ago.

Re: Apple M1 vs. Ryzen 3900X vs. Intel I9 in Software Development

#376

Post by tempfs »

djsumdog wrote: post #350

I really fear that Linux might get left behind as Apple and Microsoft go after this ARMs-race (pun intended). At least Microsoft requires UEFI with their ARM offerings, but often the bootloaders are locked. I love Linux and I love running it natively. Currently I can grab almost any Dell, HP, Lenovo, MSI, etc. desktop/laptop and there's a very good chance all the hardware will work with mainline Linux. If I get a lap…

I mean Raspberry Pi's are ARM and there are more than a few of these are running Linux(Raspian/Arch/etc/).

Linux will run on pretty much anything given an ounce of driver support. I'm not that overly worried about Linux and ARM.

Microsoft is the one that should be worried!

Re: Apple M1 vs. Ryzen 3900X vs. Intel I9 in Software Development

#377

Post by merb »

sdflhasjd wrote: post #192
gzer0 wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would you also be able to run some of these? They're publicly available; the more datasets we have the better picture we get.

So, I picked out a couple that I could run without installing too much extra: Ryzen 3900X: antd-admin webpack build: ~23 seconds. Not surprising, it's just single core. golang.org/x/benchmarks, BenchmarkBuild-8: 4.61 seconds, so far off the value of 19.65s in the article that I feel I'm getting some suspicions confirmed...

well he used bad ram and didn't specify his ssd. basically compilation is cpu+ssd+memory so if one of these suck you get what he did. a good cpu with garbage components. not sure why somebody buys an X5xx mainboard and uses 3200mhz memory (which he hopefully ran in dual channel...)

also my macbook pro is slower.

Re: Apple M1 vs. Ryzen 3900X vs. Intel I9 in Software Development

#378

Post by csomar »

gameswithgo wrote: post #311
csomar wrote: post #286

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your Ryzen probably comes with a Cooler (wraith prism). The CPU slows down considerably when it gets hot. Also, if you built the thing yourself, you might have added a super fast RAM, Motherboard, Nvme, and a capable graphic card. Comparing Desktop to Laptop is Apple to Oranges. Otherwise the desktop market will no longer exist.

that doesn't address any of his comparisons. the person doing these benchmarks also had a cooler, fast ram, motherboard has no impact, mac air has FASTER ram and a good ssd also.

How do you know? Parent didn't specify how fast his RAM is. The new macbook air is definitively fast but you could get something custom built that's faster (4400Mhz)

Re: Apple M1 vs. Ryzen 3900X vs. Intel I9 in Software Development

#380

Post by lsorber »

t-writescode wrote: post #275
janmo wrote: post #219

Many people overstate Apple's achievement, in reality most credit should go to TSMC the company that manufactures the M1 chip. The M1 is a 5nm chip, while the i9 is a 14nm chip! The M1 has about 16b transistor, the i9 has only about half of that amount. Apple's only achievement here was to make a deal with TSMC in order to be the first one to use their 5nm technology.

Did Apple not actually _design_ the chip, lay out transistor locations, do virtual testing against the future design, find bottlenecks, etc? 5nm is incredible and should not be understated; but I don't think anyone on the outside can say "most credit" should go to TSMC. A lot of credit? Absolutely. Most credit? I don't know.

If TSMC buys its lithography machines, why should it even get any credit for 5nm at all?
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