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Insulation: First the body, then the home (2011)

lowtechmagazine.com

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Re: Insulation: First the body, then the home (2011)

#211

Post by ashtonkem »

tootie wrote: post #154
ashtonkem wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We had a problem with this in older Chicago apartments, usually 2 flats and quads. These buildings usually had radiator heat fired by a common boiler in the basement and city mandated turn-on dates and minimum daily/nightly temperatures. In theory each radiator has a regulator valve that allows you to moderate the amount of steam flowing through it. In reality these valves are all painted over/corroded/never worked i…

I live that way right now in a 1950s building in NYC. The heaters only have two settings: off and thermonuclear. And the controls are centralized, ie there's no thermostat in my home. So, yeah, we control the temp by opening the windows sometimes. All that being said, living in an apartment building is automatically far more efficient than a house. We don't need to insulate three of our walls because they directly ab…

Given a similar level of insulation, yes. But I wouldn’t discount how efficient modern homes can be compared to older apartment blocks.

My 1980s home went through 99 therms of gas last month in Idaho, and that’s with us hand washing dishes (broken dishwasher) using gas hot water. After fixing the dishwasher and replacing some caulk that had failed, I think we’ll probably go through 75-80 therms per month, fewer if I went with tankless hot water. You would be very hard pressed to go through that few therms in an older apartment, especially when you’re literally heating the outside.

Newer apartment buildings absolutely crush that figure though, for all the reasons you listed. The only advantage that individual homes have over taller apartment buildings energy wise is that you can pack more solar panels on top of shorter buildings.

Re: Insulation: First the body, then the home (2011)

#212

Post by cycomanic »

wolverine876 wrote: post #102

I expect people on HN to have already figured out the obvious: It takes much less energy to heat the area under your clothes, using existing heat, than to heat a room or building with artificially generated heat. Your body is 37 deg C. Wearing low-insulation clothing and letting that heat float away, and then heating the entire room or building to warm you up again, is absurd if you understand basic physics and think…

Well things are not quite so easy, for one you can insulate your house much better than your body. Passive houses for example can keep your house at a comfortable 20 deg all year using only heat from the bodies of the inhabitants and the water heating system. One reason is, that the temperature differential between your body and the surrounding is much larger than between the house and it's surroundings, another that you have to have exchange heat (i.e. need to breath).

Also how hot or cold you feel is highly dependent on what activity you do, i.e. you are likely to be much colder working on your computer than e.g. cooking. So if you adjust your temperature to the minimum for most of your activities will automatically lead to you freezing at some activities.

Re: Insulation: First the body, then the home (2011)

#213

Post by triceratops »

Kluny wrote: post #114
wolverine876 wrote: post #102

I expect people on HN to have already figured out the obvious: It takes much less energy to heat the area under your clothes, using existing heat, than to heat a room or building with artificially generated heat. Your body is 37 deg C. Wearing low-insulation clothing and letting that heat float away, and then heating the entire room or building to warm you up again, is absurd if you understand basic physics and think…

> Maybe go a step further and wear long underwear and maybe even a hat; why not? Some reasons why not: you may live with other people who have different basal temperatures from yours, aren't comfortable at 16 degrees or whatever you settle on, and didn't consent to participating in your wacky experiment; other people may come over to visit your house without realizing in advance that they need to wear long underwear;…

> other people may come over to visit your house without realizing in advance that they need to wear long underwear;

Not a problem in Covid times. But it's possible to turn the heat up when you have guests, no? Or run a space heater in the living room when they're around?

> and low indoor temperatures promote mold growth.

I'm mystified by this. I thought moisture promoted mold growth. The solution to that is good ventilation. If anything low temp should inhibit growth, as it does for most microorganisms.

Re: Insulation: First the body, then the home (2011)

#214

Post by triceratops »

Kluny wrote: post #147
wolverine876 wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Some reasons why not: > you may live with other people who have different basal temperatures from yours, aren't comfortable at 16 degrees or whatever you settle on, and didn't consent to participating in your wacky experiment; > other people may come over to visit your house without realizing in advance that they need to wear long underwear; C'mon. We can't figure out the solutions to these problems, in a moment? :…

No thank you. I grew up in a house with a dad who fully bought into the "wear a sweater" philosophy. He'd make us go around all winter wearing two sweaters, a hat, and shoes indoors, and I still froze. My nose ran constantly and my hands got so cold I couldn't use my computer. Now I'm an adult and I've learned that the extra cost to heat my condo to 23 degrees all winter is basically the same as my Netflix subscripti…

> you have a problem with your insulation and you need to fix it.

Amen! But imagine the savings if you have good insulation and keep the heat down!

Re: Insulation: First the body, then the home (2011)

#215

Post by coldtea »

peteretep wrote: post #11

From the comments: > Sorry, I am not buying it. Not because you haven't done good work on the article: you have. Also not because N.American homes are overheated, and the residents under-dressed: they are. I do not buy it because the Japanese live the way you suggest in the winter, and it is miserable I have a mother in Scotland and I have a mother-in-law in Canada. Worst it ever gets near my mother seems to be -5C,…

>I do not buy it because the Japanese live the way you suggest in the winter, and it is miserable

Yeah, so? Eating properly is also "miserable" compared to eating junk food. It's also better for you and for society.

Re: Insulation: First the body, then the home (2011)

#216

Post by coldtea »

1996 wrote: post #167
amingilani wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I concur. My account is just as anecdotal and also limited to a specific region. That said, I recently moved to North America and have lived in Pakistan my entire life. A combination of poorly insulated building materials, old houses, an energy crisis, and a low GDP per capita leads most individuals to people conserving body-heat in the winter. It isn't fun, and you're never warm enough. It was bizarre for me to loun…

> That said, I recently moved to North America and have lived in Pakistan most of my life. Welcome here! I hope you'll like it! Is it your first winter? It's a special experience! My favorite thing in the winter is a hot Tim Hortons drink - I rotate them, because they are all quite good! > And yet, winter feels infinitely colder in Pakistan than it does in Canada. Until you go outside and try to walk in the street :)

>Is it your first winter? It's a special experience!

Why would it be? Pakistan has winters, and cold ones at that...

Re: Insulation: First the body, then the home (2011)

#217

Post by Kluny »

triceratops wrote: post #213
Kluny wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Maybe go a step further and wear long underwear and maybe even a hat; why not? Some reasons why not: you may live with other people who have different basal temperatures from yours, aren't comfortable at 16 degrees or whatever you settle on, and didn't consent to participating in your wacky experiment; other people may come over to visit your house without realizing in advance that they need to wear long underwear;…

> other people may come over to visit your house without realizing in advance that they need to wear long underwear; Not a problem in Covid times. But it's possible to turn the heat up when you have guests, no? Or run a space heater in the living room when they're around? > and low indoor temperatures promote mold growth. I'm mystified by this. I thought moisture promoted mold growth. The solution to that is good ven…

> Not a problem in Covid times. But it's possible to turn the heat up when you have guests, no? Or run a space heater in the living room when they're around?

Sure, if you're considerate enough to do that! My dad wasn't!

Re: Insulation: First the body, then the home (2011)

#218

Post by war1025 »

totetsu wrote: post #14

sleeping in my delicate merino thermals is how the all got holes and ladders in them.

Buy quality wool blankets and you won't need to worry about delicate underlayers.

A thick wool blanket below you and one above you, along with standard cotton sheets will keep you quite cozy.

Re: Insulation: First the body, then the home (2011)

#219

Post by UnFleshedOne »

coldtea wrote: post #216
1996 wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> That said, I recently moved to North America and have lived in Pakistan most of my life. Welcome here! I hope you'll like it! Is it your first winter? It's a special experience! My favorite thing in the winter is a hot Tim Hortons drink - I rotate them, because they are all quite good! > And yet, winter feels infinitely colder in Pakistan than it does in Canada. Until you go outside and try to walk in the street :)

> Is it your first winter? It's a special experience! Why would it be? Pakistan has winters, and cold ones at that...

"The record coldest it's ever gotten in Lahore was an unfathomable –2.2 °C on January 17, 1935."

That's not a winter, that's a sudden mid-summer frost... :)

Re: Insulation: First the body, then the home (2011)

#220

Post by war1025 »

snow_mac wrote: post #191

Smart and very true. But honestly, I'm lazy. I don't leave my house much. I like to keep it no lower then 72 or 73 in the day and 75 at night. I have my heating setup such that after 9 am it drops the house to 72 (naturally) then at 4 pm kicks it up to 73. 6 pm 74, and 8 at 75. Hold all night until 6 am when I have it kick down to 74. I don't care about the cost. Sure I could spend less and yes, I use more then all o…

Why put the heat up overnight? That seems extremely counter-intuitive to me.
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