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Why are new devices dependent on the Internet but made with little forethought?

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Re: Why are new devices dependent on the Internet but made with little forethought?

#41

Post by mcguire »

stickfigure wrote: post #4

I stopped reading at Try to recall a time back when the Internet didn't exist... Where things like cars and phones functioned on their own in a much more reliable manner. I grew up in the 80s and have owned several cars from that era. They were significantly less reliable than cars of today. Carburetors were still present (though being phased out) and there were always vacuum hoses that, when they leaked, caused your…

So you missed the other half of that example? "Now consider current times when your thermostat becomes completely unresponsive in the middle of winter because a vital network goes down. Imagine you're not able to operate your car during a crisis because networks are down?"

Something, something, "Please respond to the strongest plausible interpretation of what someone says, not a weaker one that's easier to criticize. Assume good faith. ... Please don't post shallow dismissals, especially of other people's work. A good critical comment teaches us something."

Re: Why are new devices dependent on the Internet but made with little forethought?

#42

Post by jjk166 »

nalekberov wrote: post #30
gambiting wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes they absolutely did, they just couldn't get them. Games still shipped buggy, you just had to get used to it, tough. I work with people who were in the games industry in late 90s and the idea that games shipped without bugs is just funny to them.

i have bought some nintendo games a year or two ago, some of them received 0 update, still operate as a charm, without any (at least noticeable) bug.

Survivor bias: the games people fondly remember and want to go back and play decades later are generally the ones with few if any problems. The buggy crap got purchased by an unlucky few and then was quickly abandoned and forgotten.

It's also why classic music, books, movies, etc are great - decades of pruning leaving a short list of best-ofs.

Re: Why are new devices dependent on the Internet but made with little forethought?

#43

Post by ardy42 »

Semaphor wrote: post #6

Many or most aren’t. I have a bunch of home automation devices and I’m planning for more. Most of them don’t require any internet connectivity, the only one that does (I still have Alexa connected to Home Assistant, planning to replace her with Rhasspy but didn’t find the time yet) is purely an extra method of controlling things so nothing breaks without internet. I see people buying internet-required devices as the…

> I see people buying internet-required devices as the same people who buy the registry cleaners. They don’t know enough about computers themselves, and the advertorials/computer magazines don’t do them any favors.

In some cases, you don't have a choice. As far as I know, all current Roomba models have their schedule programmed via an smartphone app. I don't have one, so I don't know if it exactly requires the internet, but it's close. Older models (like the ones I have) used buttons on the unit and had no need for any kind of network at all.

Re: Why are new devices dependent on the Internet but made with little forethought?

#44

Post by boznz »

styfle wrote: post #8
stickfigure wrote: post #4

I stopped reading at Try to recall a time back when the Internet didn't exist... Where things like cars and phones functioned on their own in a much more reliable manner. I grew up in the 80s and have owned several cars from that era. They were significantly less reliable than cars of today. Carburetors were still present (though being phased out) and there were always vacuum hoses that, when they leaked, caused your…

Video games that didn’t need software updates :)

OTA Updates negates proper testing. Read this as good or bad but most everything is working this way now.

Re: Why are new devices dependent on the Internet but made with little forethought?

#45

Post by outworlder »

I don't have any problems with devices being connected to the internet, per se. Some issues may arise for devices with sensors like cameras that could be abused.

I have 3 robot vacuums (one is technically a mop). Two are internet connected, one is not. The two internet connected ones are kept up-to-date and get new capabilities from time to time. And one of these is also accessible from the local network too. This is great. At least I know that, should the company decide to support the product, I'll retain some of the capabilities.

Which is something that happened to my Pebble. The community did step in and provide some missing functionality, but it wasn't a seamless transition.

The biggest issue is the amount of e-waste we are creating by having - otherwise perfectly functional devices - being thrown away because their command and control servers were shutdown.

There should be some mandate that companies are required to support the internet connected product for X number of years, just like cars. If they go out of business they should be required to release the control software.

Re: Why are new devices dependent on the Internet but made with little forethought?

#46

Post by ASalazarMX »

NikolaeVarius wrote: post #29
styfle wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Video games that didn’t need software updates :)

I imagine people would love a original PacMan update that solves the overflow issue

IIRC MAME has a cheat that solves that issue.

Re: Why are new devices dependent on the Internet but made with little forethought?

#47

Post by mywittyname »

pas wrote: post #21
ohazi wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The internet didn't fix these things, fuel injection, electronic ignition, and digital signal processing / denser silicon integration did.

Most cars are still not Internet connected. And most Internet-enabled cars still run perfectly fine without access to the Internet.

Depending on your definition of "internet connected," I'd disagree with your first point. Most new cars come equipped with the hardware for a data-enabled cellular connection and many have been for years. While it's not a feature you necessarily see or know about, it's there. Presumably, the ones that are used by a service like OnStar are constantly polling in the background to get status updates for the account the vehicle is associated with.

But yes, to my knowledge, most (all?) operate fine without a cell signal.

Re: Why are new devices dependent on the Internet but made with little forethought?

#48

Post by CountSessine »

mywittyname wrote: post #33
stickfigure wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Irrespective of why, cars and phones did not function in a more reliable manner back then. The statement is false.

They could be fixed using low-tech tools though. Something you're overlooking with your concept of "reliability" is that cars produced before 1980 can be fixed using pretty basic tool. It's conceivable that a car from that era could continue to work well into the 2100s. Because most of what can break on can be remanufactured by a reasonably-skilled machinist. Yeah, cars need to be fixed much less often, and they are…

"Easily fix" is relative though. It was never a majority of car owners that fixed their own cars. I would never have maintained a thousand-dollar toolbox to fix and maintain my car - not then and not now. I'm just not mechanically inclined. For us, there's no difference - we need to take the car in to be serviced either way. The complexification of automobile engineering has disenfranchised a small minority of car owners. But for the rest of us, we just don't need to bring the car in for servicing as much. It's a huge win for the majority.

Re: Why are new devices dependent on the Internet but made with little forethought?

#49

Post by stickfigure »

mcguire wrote: post #41
stickfigure wrote: post #4

I stopped reading at Try to recall a time back when the Internet didn't exist... Where things like cars and phones functioned on their own in a much more reliable manner. I grew up in the 80s and have owned several cars from that era. They were significantly less reliable than cars of today. Carburetors were still present (though being phased out) and there were always vacuum hoses that, when they leaked, caused your…

So you missed the other half of that example? " Now consider current times when your thermostat becomes completely unresponsive in the middle of winter because a vital network goes down. Imagine you're not able to operate your car during a crisis because networks are down? " Something, something, "Please respond to the strongest plausible interpretation of what someone says, not a weaker one that's easier to criticiz…

That statement is also false.

I have a Nest thermostat. It works fine without the network. I have a modern car. It works fine without the internet. Several of my friends have Teslas. They work fine offgrid.

It's just nonsense. Stop defending it.

Re: Why are new devices dependent on the Internet but made with little forethought?

#50

Post by FpUser »

stickfigure wrote: post #4

I stopped reading at Try to recall a time back when the Internet didn't exist... Where things like cars and phones functioned on their own in a much more reliable manner. I grew up in the 80s and have owned several cars from that era. They were significantly less reliable than cars of today. Carburetors were still present (though being phased out) and there were always vacuum hoses that, when they leaked, caused your…

I do not have 80s experience but starting from 1994-1996 (do not remember exactly) I do not recall any major problems with any of my cars. There was one exception when the transmission broke (I could still drive to repair shop) but from what I see this kind of shit can happen now just as likely.
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