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Why are new devices dependent on the Internet but made with little forethought?

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Re: Why are new devices dependent on the Internet but made with little forethought?

#31
post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Video games that didn’t need software updates :)

Yes they absolutely did, they just couldn't get them. Games still shipped buggy, you just had to get used to it, tough. I work with people who were in the games industry in late 90s and the idea that games shipped without bugs is just funny to them.

Now an update can "fix" broken business models.

I loved the "fixes" to Plants vs Zombies when EA bought popcap.

Re: Why are new devices dependent on the Internet but made with little forethought?

#32
post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Video games that didn’t need software updates :)

Yes they absolutely did, they just couldn't get them. Games still shipped buggy, you just had to get used to it, tough. I work with people who were in the games industry in late 90s and the idea that games shipped without bugs is just funny to them.

The question is, were those games shipped as buggy as today's games?

Today's games are more buggy, in part because they're much more complex, and in part because software update allows to ship them unfinished.

Re: Why are new devices dependent on the Internet but made with little forethought?

#33
post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The internet didn't fix these things, fuel injection, electronic ignition, and digital signal processing / denser silicon integration did.

Irrespective of why, cars and phones did not function in a more reliable manner back then. The statement is false.

They could be fixed using low-tech tools though.

Something you're overlooking with your concept of "reliability" is that cars produced before 1980 can be fixed using pretty basic tool. It's conceivable that a car from that era could continue to work well into the 2100s. Because most of what can break on can be remanufactured by a reasonably-skilled machinist.

Yeah, cars need to be fixed much less often, and they are substantially less fickle vis-a-vis temperature and operating conditions. But the moment the software to repair newer cars is gone, so too goes our ability to easily fix them.

This isn't some far-flung dystopian idea either. It's totally possible that the hardware & software used to repair today's cars is difficult or impossible to come by in 30 years. Some of this stuff is five- and six-figure investments. Maybe stuff for GM or Honda vehicles will be accessible, but what about smaller companies like Mazda or Subaru?

Re: Why are new devices dependent on the Internet but made with little forethought?

#34
post #20

I stopped reading at Try to recall a time back when the Internet didn't exist... Where things like cars and phones functioned on their own in a much more reliable manner. I grew up in the 80s and have owned several cars from that era. They were significantly less reliable than cars of today. Carburetors were still present (though being phased out) and there were always vacuum hoses that, when they leaked, caused your…

You're right that cars are more reliable today but I follow a lot of mechanics on YouTube (Car Wizard, Kilmer, etc) who say that cars were easier to work on back then. These days (at least in the luxury segment) there are a lot of electronic components that can only be repaired by the OEM. We are also in a strange transitional period with the addition of auto start-stop, hybrid engines, etc that also complicate the c…

> You're right that cars are more reliable today

even that is changing according to youtubers like Kilmer. IIRC he has lambasted his favorite car maker Toyota for having a lower quality today than years past.

Re: Why are new devices dependent on the Internet but made with little forethought?

#35
post #20

I stopped reading at Try to recall a time back when the Internet didn't exist... Where things like cars and phones functioned on their own in a much more reliable manner. I grew up in the 80s and have owned several cars from that era. They were significantly less reliable than cars of today. Carburetors were still present (though being phased out) and there were always vacuum hoses that, when they leaked, caused your…

You're right that cars are more reliable today but I follow a lot of mechanics on YouTube (Car Wizard, Kilmer, etc) who say that cars were easier to work on back then. These days (at least in the luxury segment) there are a lot of electronic components that can only be repaired by the OEM. We are also in a strange transitional period with the addition of auto start-stop, hybrid engines, etc that also complicate the c…

New cars are based on black boxes that need to be coded to work together so if they break it is generally the authorised repair shop or the scrapyard.. So sad :-(

Re: Why are new devices dependent on the Internet but made with little forethought?

#36

I stopped reading at Try to recall a time back when the Internet didn't exist... Where things like cars and phones functioned on their own in a much more reliable manner. I grew up in the 80s and have owned several cars from that era. They were significantly less reliable than cars of today. Carburetors were still present (though being phased out) and there were always vacuum hoses that, when they leaked, caused your…

I think you're overlooking the "on their own" part. The OP isn't lamenting that things are less reliable in general, just that they aren't reliably capable of working offline or on a local network. Phones are maybe an odd example, but it's somewhat true: Traditional phone systems let you make local calls even if long-distance lines fail, or within a building without leaking data externally. Very few people would ever…

I don't think I've ever heard a fast-busy signal from my cell phone, even once. But it happened lots with landlines when too many people were making local telephone calls. Circuit switched networks kind of suck in a lot of ways. I don't think I would say traditional phone systems were as reliable as modern telephone and data systems.

Re: Why are new devices dependent on the Internet but made with little forethought?

#37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes they absolutely did, they just couldn't get them. Games still shipped buggy, you just had to get used to it, tough. I work with people who were in the games industry in late 90s and the idea that games shipped without bugs is just funny to them.

i have bought some nintendo games a year or two ago, some of them received 0 update, still operate as a charm, without any (at least noticeable) bug.

Switch or retro? Retro was specially hard because once you shipped the cartridges/CDs, the only way to get a revised game was to buy it twice.

Still, Nintendo does a pretty good job of avoiding most critical bugs before release even on the Switch.

Re: Why are new devices dependent on the Internet but made with little forethought?

#38

Spoiler alert: the answer is that it's more profitable that way.

Especially on the short term. It's much easier/cheaper to make something that's not even planned to last long.

And people don't care about the long term. :(

Re: Why are new devices dependent on the Internet but made with little forethought?

#39

I stopped reading at Try to recall a time back when the Internet didn't exist... Where things like cars and phones functioned on their own in a much more reliable manner. I grew up in the 80s and have owned several cars from that era. They were significantly less reliable than cars of today. Carburetors were still present (though being phased out) and there were always vacuum hoses that, when they leaked, caused your…

I think you're overlooking the "on their own" part. The OP isn't lamenting that things are less reliable in general, just that they aren't reliably capable of working offline or on a local network. Phones are maybe an odd example, but it's somewhat true: Traditional phone systems let you make local calls even if long-distance lines fail, or within a building without leaking data externally. Very few people would ever…

I am not sure about now but accordingly to what my friend told me at the end of 90s and in the beginning of 2000s in Russia they would wire whole apartment buildings as a very fast LAN with P2P capabilities. So if you urgently needed to download whatever there was very good chance that your request will not cross boundary of said LAN.

Re: Why are new devices dependent on the Internet but made with little forethought?

#40
post #16
post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Video games that didn’t need software updates :)

Also video games that didn't get regular, free content updates. Top of mind because my partner and I are doing another playthrough of Terraria and there's once again a bunch of new content for us to go through.

OTOH, those games didn't have microtransactions or lots of paid DLCs.
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