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Apple M1 vs. Ryzen 3900X vs. Intel I9 in Software Development

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Re: Apple M1 vs. Ryzen 3900X vs. Intel I9 in Software Development

#291

Post by janmo »

t-writescode wrote: post #275
janmo wrote: post #219

Many people overstate Apple's achievement, in reality most credit should go to TSMC the company that manufactures the M1 chip. The M1 is a 5nm chip, while the i9 is a 14nm chip! The M1 has about 16b transistor, the i9 has only about half of that amount. Apple's only achievement here was to make a deal with TSMC in order to be the first one to use their 5nm technology.

Did Apple not actually _design_ the chip, lay out transistor locations, do virtual testing against the future design, find bottlenecks, etc? 5nm is incredible and should not be understated; but I don't think anyone on the outside can say "most credit" should go to TSMC. A lot of credit? Absolutely. Most credit? I don't know.

Sure, the M1 chip is very good, the question here is what made the M1 perform better than a i9 and I would argue it is because of the 5nm technology. If the M1 had only 8b transistors and was using 14nm technology I really doubt that it would beat the i9.

Re: Apple M1 vs. Ryzen 3900X vs. Intel I9 in Software Development

#292

Post by jeffbee »

mackal wrote: post #202
x87678r wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're not wrong but the article is still a 9th gen laptop i9. A desktop i9 is quicker - https://cpu.userbenchmark.com/Compare/Intel-Core-i9-9880H-vs... .

I still don't understand why people can't get that not all i9s are the same. That's literally what this title is implying ... Which isn't even the article's title ... Maybe someone will edit it so people stop assuming they mean the i9-10900k ...

Also i9 doesn't mean "fast" it just means it is the most expensive of its generation. You will get much closer to M1 performance using a mobile 11th gen i7 than with any i9.

Re: Apple M1 vs. Ryzen 3900X vs. Intel I9 in Software Development

#293

Post by tartaglia »

easton wrote: post #280
tartaglia wrote: post #229

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I just had a vision: Amazon Basics Laptops

That's very interesting. A CR-48 looking, basic laptop with workable keyboard and trackpad. Chrome/Chromium OS (similar to CloudReady) since all the schools are on Google. If they could get it to $249 with reasonable performance, they could crush it.

Since we’re fantasising, I’d say a bare metal Linux distro — or a fork of Chromium OS — running as web client for AWS Workspaces. The downside is that you need an Internet connection at all times, and possibly a subscription.

Re: Apple M1 vs. Ryzen 3900X vs. Intel I9 in Software Development

#294

Post by skohan »

rayiner wrote: post #256
FredFS456 wrote: post #243

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, for the instruction set all the CPUs are required to be compatible. However, Apple seems to be going in the direction of having many many hardware accelerators builtin to their SoC and integrated into their software ecosystem. I assume that if Google and Amazon were to build their own chips, they'd do the same. Those accelerators will not be intercompatible, and we'll have a dozen different vendored drivers, li…

> However, Apple seems to be going in the direction of having many many hardware accelerators builtin to their SoC and integrated into their software ecosystem. I think this is overstated. There are quite a few differences between Intel and AMD extensions these days and they don’t create much of a problem. Apple’s architecture isn’t reliant on accelerators or special instructions to get good performance on general pu…

But it could exist right? For instance, what if MS created an ARM variant with special instructions to accelerate C# garbage collection? You could imagine a world where vertical integration throughout the entire stack leads to software which kind of works everywhere, but only really gives a good experience on 1st party hardware.

Re: Apple M1 vs. Ryzen 3900X vs. Intel I9 in Software Development

#295

Post by jeffbee »

wheybags wrote: post #121
doikor wrote: post #10

> Just Buy M1 if you'd like to have a low-power, long-lasting, quiet, and performant dev machine. If your development environment/tooling/workflow does not gain any real advantage from more CPU cores. Also your data must fit in the 16GB of RAM as offloading any workload to disk will kill the performance and you cannot add more. The M1 has excellent single core performance so any task that is mainly single threaded wi…

Yes, I'd really like to see a large c++ project compile added to that list of benchmarks.

Anything trivially parallel like a large C++ scratch build is obviously going to run faster if you have many more cores even if those cores are slower. What I'd specifically like to see is a benchmark of the long pole of most builds: the single-threaded link step.

Re: Apple M1 vs. Ryzen 3900X vs. Intel I9 in Software Development

#296

Post by janmo »

giantrobot wrote: post #271
janmo wrote: post #219

Many people overstate Apple's achievement, in reality most credit should go to TSMC the company that manufactures the M1 chip. The M1 is a 5nm chip, while the i9 is a 14nm chip! The M1 has about 16b transistor, the i9 has only about half of that amount. Apple's only achievement here was to make a deal with TSMC in order to be the first one to use their 5nm technology.

Apple's only achievement...besides the actual design of the CPU, GPU, and ML accelerator that TSMC is manufacturing. Besides that what have the Romans every done for us?

Apple's M1 basically uses the architecture used for iPhone/iPad chips. Now I don't deny that the M1 is an impressive chip. But the question is would it be as good as the i9 if it would be a 14nm chip with only half of its 16b transistors?

Re: Apple M1 vs. Ryzen 3900X vs. Intel I9 in Software Development

#297

Post by dmitriid »

seddin wrote: post #120
dmitriid wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All these gains will be entirely swallowed by software in a few years.

Electron apps or worse.

Not just Electron apps. I've seen people on Twitter gushing about how seamless and flicker-free is switching between screens and resolutions on M1. And yet, there's literally no reason why it can't be done today, now, on the existing hardware.

Instant waking from sleep was one of the key points in M1's presentation. Something my 2007 model Macbook Pro could do. But then the subsequent releases of MacOS just couldn't do that. Despite significant increases in disk speed, and CPU speed, and RAM speed.

We are effecivey running supercomputers. And we can't seem to be able to do anything with them.

Re: Apple M1 vs. Ryzen 3900X vs. Intel I9 in Software Development

#298

Post by shmoogy »

paulgb wrote: post #189
codenesium wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My primary dev environment is in ec2. I don't really care about multiple monitors. It's so convenient.

Can you tell me more about your setup? Like which ec2 instance size, remote desktop software, and any other tips? I’ve considered doing the same.

I use different size instances, but I use SSH (mosh), tmux, and vscoder through the browser, when I "need" an IDE.

on my MacBook Air, I use azure data studio to connect to our MSSQL instances if I need a UI view of our database.

Re: Apple M1 vs. Ryzen 3900X vs. Intel I9 in Software Development

#299

Post by Gaelan »

ducktective wrote: post #272
bhouston wrote: post #253

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I thought the m1 has dedicated js instructions.

What are js instructions and what does javascript(?) have to do with ISA?

IIRC, the standard ARM instruction set does include some instructions with "javascript" in the end. I think they're floating point instructions that handle some edge case (NaNs?) in the same way that x86, and therefore the JS spec, do.

Re: Apple M1 vs. Ryzen 3900X vs. Intel I9 in Software Development

#300

Post by cbozeman »

tartaglia wrote: post #229
geogra4 wrote: post #213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Amazon already makes their own chips on the Graviton line. I wonder how long before you can get a graviton pc? maybe never?

I just had a vision: Amazon Basics Laptops

That's not a vision, that's a nightmare.
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