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Apple M1 vs. Ryzen 3900X vs. Intel I9 in Software Development

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Re: Apple M1 vs. Ryzen 3900X vs. Intel I9 in Software Development

#221

Post by xxpor »

klelatti wrote: post #204
nitrogen wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The base ISA is set by ARM, but every vendor has their own set of features turned on or off, and their own extensions, and potentially their own way of laying out memory mapped IO and identifying peripherals.

Every vendor does not have their own set of extensions. Different x86 chips have different extensions (from a pre-defined set) - I don't see panic about x86 fragmentation.

Is there any difference between AMD and Intel these days in terms of instructions other than AVX512?

Re: Apple M1 vs. Ryzen 3900X vs. Intel I9 in Software Development

#222

Post by gpderetta »

gzer0 wrote: post #77
tmalsburg2 wrote: post #46

Why is the naive-bayes benchmark (first graph) such an extreme outlier? M1 is ~10 times slower on this benchmark whereas it is faster than the competition on almost any other benchmarks.

The decoupling of the class conditional feature distributions of the naive-bayes benchmark means that each distribution can be independently estimated as a one-dimensional distribution. This helps alleviate problems stemming from the curse of dimensionality, such as the need for data sets that scale exponentially with the number of features. This is precisely an area where x86 architecture and CISC ISA will out rank…

M1 is not RISC-V and I don't think CISC vs RISC is of any significance here.

If naive bayes is really embarassingly parallel, SIMD+lots of cores help here of course. It is also probably highly optimized code that doesn't rely so significantly on OoO capabilities and can take advantage of the higher clock rate.

Even Itanium was very good at numerical code.

Re: Apple M1 vs. Ryzen 3900X vs. Intel I9 in Software Development

#224

Post by janmo »

pmontra wrote: post #159

Considering that Apple won't sell their chips to anybody else, and the M2, M3, Mn could be increasingly faster than the x86 chips, how long before we start moving along this path? 1. Amazon, Google, Microsoft start building their own chips for their own clouds. The most efficient chip could translate into the cheapest cloud, or the fastest one at the same price. Their choice. 2. There will be N somewhat compatible AR…

It has nothing to do with their architecture. Here are the facts:

The M1 is a 5nm chip, while the i9 is a 14nm chip! The M1 has about 16b transistor, the i9 has only about half of that amount.

No surprise the M1 is faster. Most credit should go to TSMC for being able to manufacture 5nm chips.

Re: Apple M1 vs. Ryzen 3900X vs. Intel I9 in Software Development

#225

Post by viktorcode »

klelatti wrote: post #83

Leaving aside the x86 vs Arm efficiency debate, the key takeaway with the M1 for me is that the Arm licensing business model has allowed Apple to innovate on top of the Arm ISA and create something genuinely impressive. I know the x86 ecosystem is more open but the costs of being locked into the x86 duopoly for so long have been invisible. The M1 is making them visible.

> Leaving aside the x86 vs Arm efficiency debate

Just to clarify, there was no debate about efficiency in terms of work per Watt for a very long time now. Arm wins in this regard, because it is designed for efficiency. The remaining questions were question is how fast can Arm go? Can it compete with x86 performance-wise?

Re: Apple M1 vs. Ryzen 3900X vs. Intel I9 in Software Development

#226

Post by memco »

There were a few confusing bits to this article including the fact that the preamble shows different specs than the graphs and tables in the actual benchmarks. There is also mismatched labels on the axes sometimes they are per machine and sometimes they are per benchmark which made it a little hard to follow. The overall point that the M1 is a viable development machine is really nice to see. I am intrigued by the fact that the air seems to be the mini often times—I would be interested to know more about why. I would also be interested to see additional benchmarks from other lower level languages like rust, C and Swift.

Re: Apple M1 vs. Ryzen 3900X vs. Intel I9 in Software Development

#227

Post by KingOfCoders »

I find the page confusing, isn't most about runtime performance of applications? From the title I would have assumed it is about compilation speeds and such.

Also I find it confusing that I can't find if the tests are multi-core or single-core performance? Why choose a 12C Ryzen when the tests are single core?

I'm probably too stupid for this.

Re: Apple M1 vs. Ryzen 3900X vs. Intel I9 in Software Development

#228

Post by macintux »

DoofusOfDeath wrote: post #191
macintux wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> For example, what's the status of VM systems with M1 Mac as host, and x86-64 Linux as guest? From what I understand, there is no way to virtualize an x86-64 operating system on the M1. You can run ARM Linux or Windows, but not x86-64.

> From what I understand, there is no way to virtualize an x86-64 operating system on the M1. I wonder if QEMU is up to the challenge. I know it's capable of emulating fairly recent Intel x86-64 chips. But I'm not sure what QEMU requires of the host hardware/OS. EDIT: This seems relevant: https://www.techradar.com/news/you-can-now-run-linux-and-win...

This post seems reasonably thorough: https://blog.xojo.com/2020/12/04/about-running-windows-and-l...

Re: Apple M1 vs. Ryzen 3900X vs. Intel I9 in Software Development

#229

Post by tartaglia »

geogra4 wrote: post #213
tartaglia wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is no incentive for AWS to add restrictions like Apple with XCode. Indeed, I think that this would just reduce the amount of the customers they can reach. I don’t think that other computers manufacturers are going to follow Apple’s lead. Maybe Microsoft will do it if they decide to get serious with their Surface line. The one company I see benefiting the most from this is Qualcomm. They have the customers and t…

Amazon already makes their own chips on the Graviton line. I wonder how long before you can get a graviton pc? maybe never?

I just had a vision: Amazon Basics Laptops

Re: Apple M1 vs. Ryzen 3900X vs. Intel I9 in Software Development

#230

Post by gzer0 »

gpderetta wrote: post #222
gzer0 wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The decoupling of the class conditional feature distributions of the naive-bayes benchmark means that each distribution can be independently estimated as a one-dimensional distribution. This helps alleviate problems stemming from the curse of dimensionality, such as the need for data sets that scale exponentially with the number of features. This is precisely an area where x86 architecture and CISC ISA will out rank…

M1 is not RISC-V and I don't think CISC vs RISC is of any significance here. If naive bayes is really embarassingly parallel, SIMD+lots of cores help here of course. It is also probably highly optimized code that doesn't rely so significantly on OoO capabilities and can take advantage of the higher clock rate. Even Itanium was very good at numerical code.

What is the M1 then?

https://medium.com/swlh/what-does-risc-and-cisc-mean-in-2020...

confused.

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