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Apple M1 vs. Ryzen 3900X vs. Intel I9 in Software Development

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Re: Apple M1 vs. Ryzen 3900X vs. Intel I9 in Software Development

#141

Post by vlovich123 »

gpderetta wrote: post #133
R0b0t1 wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This was explored in detail in another thread, it seems most of the gains are from looser memory ordering.

I think that Apple "just" [1] picked a very happy place in the parameter space: lower clock means that main memory (which is already lower latency than usual) is "nearer" to the cpu plus a larger L1 with a shorter latency (3 cycles). These (plus probably a larger amount of sustainable outstanding misses) imply that the cpu stalls less which means that they can sustain a larger ILP [2]. A better branch predictor (whic…

You’re right. Like I said, atomics are one space. Another as you point out is that the memory architecture is pretty unique at providing high throughout and lower latency than traditional x86 architectures. I suspect Intel and AMD will adjust their roadmaps accordingly as a result of this new competition.

Re: Apple M1 vs. Ryzen 3900X vs. Intel I9 in Software Development

#142

Post by mrtksn »

cromka wrote: post #137
mrtksn wrote: post #69

I quickly looked up the AMD for price and TPD. Turns out, AMD Ryzen 3900X is a 105W TPD CPU with 420GBP price tag when on discount. The base Mac mini is 699GBP. Is there any info on the overclock prospects for Apple M1? Is there possibility to run this beast at AMD&Intel heat output levels? How fast a water cooled M1 could be?

M1 doesn't hit thermal dissipation capacity of Apple's fan solutions (in Mini and MB Pro). You can witness that by torturing the CPU and not even hearing the fan at all. Plenty f videos on the web show that. The fan spins, but only barely and never quite as much as with Intel I-series. And they use the same fan/heatpipe as with previous models, so nothing was improved here.

Sure, it doesn't hit the thermal envelope of Pro&Mini when working as is but isn't there a way to push it to run at higher voltage and frequencies?

Re: Apple M1 vs. Ryzen 3900X vs. Intel I9 in Software Development

#143

Post by galaxyLogic »

Isn't it much the case that AMD beats Intel because AMD is 7nm while Intel is 10nm. And now, Apple is 5nm. You would expect the fastest performance from 5nm, assuming we don't take into account multi-threading.

https://www.tomshardware.com/news/Apple-M1-Chip-Everything-W...

Re: Apple M1 vs. Ryzen 3900X vs. Intel I9 in Software Development

#144

Post by alexhutcheson »

bigdict wrote: post #111
alexhutcheson wrote: post #79

I recently ordered a Lenovo X1 Carbon at a steep discount ($830 for Gen 8 w/ 16 GB RAM and 512 GB SSD). I felt great about it when I ordered it, but now I'm agonizing over whether to cancel and get an M1 MacBook Air instead. I'll probably be using the laptop for 4-5 years, and I'm concerned that anything with a current-gen Intel chip is going to feel like "legacy tech" for most of that time. Amazing how the M1 has ch…

Linux works great on X1 Carbons, not so much on new Apple machines. Keep the X1 if you care about that. Also the next gen Carbons are supposed to have a 16:10 screen.

I actually prefer Windows w/ WSL2 on my laptops rather than a bare-metal Linux install. It adds a bit of friction, but in return I never have any issue with external displays, sleep/wake, OS upgrades, etc.

> Also the next gen Carbons are supposed to have a 16:10 screen.

Yeah, a taller screen and Tiger Lake processors will probably be a significant improvement. However, I think they'll probably sell for close to "list price" when they are released (so $1500+ for a decent configuration). The build quality is a bargain at $830, not so much at $1500.

Re: Apple M1 vs. Ryzen 3900X vs. Intel I9 in Software Development

#145

Post by doikor »

wheybags wrote: post #121
doikor wrote: post #10

> Just Buy M1 if you'd like to have a low-power, long-lasting, quiet, and performant dev machine. If your development environment/tooling/workflow does not gain any real advantage from more CPU cores. Also your data must fit in the 16GB of RAM as offloading any workload to disk will kill the performance and you cannot add more. The M1 has excellent single core performance so any task that is mainly single threaded wi…

Yes, I'd really like to see a large c++ project compile added to that list of benchmarks.

Here is example of that (compilation benchmarks) for Ryzen 5950X

https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=ryzen-59...

> For the code compilation speed tests were compiking Apache, PHP, the Linux kernel, ImageMagick, GDB, LLVM, FFmpeg, and MPlayer

Re: Apple M1 vs. Ryzen 3900X vs. Intel I9 in Software Development

#146

Post by floatboth »

nicoburns wrote: post #47
epmaybe wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was worried about this too, but have been pleasantly surprised by this laptop. I'm sure my use case is far different to yours though. I was looking at my RAM consumption on my 16GB MacBook Pro prior to purchasing the M1 MacBook Air, and I was usually hitting 14-15GB with multiple GB of swap used in my regular use case (couple of chrome tabs, some electron apps, Xcode, 1st party apps all open). I consciously pare do…

I wouldn't be worried about 16GB now (my current MacBook is 16GB and I don't have any problems). But I want my laptop to least a decent amount of time (at least 5 years), and I do worry about whether 16GB will be sufficient then.

It depends on what you do, and always will. 16GB will be enough for web browsing, gaming, and coding websites in python 5 years down the line. 16GB is not enough now for.. say, compiling Firefox with LTO, at least while browsing.

Re: Apple M1 vs. Ryzen 3900X vs. Intel I9 in Software Development

#147

Post by jdxcode »

robin_reala wrote: post #65
wwright wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, Apple has managed to move all the way down to a 5nm process while Intel still hasn't made it past 14nm. AFAIK that's the largest limiting factor for Intel. I can't speak to why they have been stuck there for so long.

Leaving aside the fact that process size is a marketing term these days, I’m currently typing this on a previous-gen Macbook Air with a 10nm Intel CPU. They’re definitely not stuck on 14nm.

yes but GP is still correct in general if not in the specifics. Practically speaking they can fit way more transistors on the die which translates to more power for more types of things whether it's M1 or 888.

Re: Apple M1 vs. Ryzen 3900X vs. Intel I9 in Software Development

#148

Post by nowherebeen »

alexhutcheson wrote: post #79

I recently ordered a Lenovo X1 Carbon at a steep discount ($830 for Gen 8 w/ 16 GB RAM and 512 GB SSD). I felt great about it when I ordered it, but now I'm agonizing over whether to cancel and get an M1 MacBook Air instead. I'll probably be using the laptop for 4-5 years, and I'm concerned that anything with a current-gen Intel chip is going to feel like "legacy tech" for most of that time. Amazing how the M1 has ch…

I thought about the X1 Carbon, but the aspect ratio was a turn off for me. Even though it is 14 inch, somehow, I feel I get more usable space with Macs. I am waiting for the 14 inch though since I also plan to keep it for 4-5 years.

Re: Apple M1 vs. Ryzen 3900X vs. Intel I9 in Software Development

#149

Post by KiranRao0 »

doikor wrote: post #40
api wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah seeing a MacBook Air beat an i9 is hilarious. I think this should put arguments over X86 efficiency disadvantages to bed. The X86 is obviously a huge boat anchor. There is no other explanation for this monstrous of a performance efficiency gap... unless Apple has invented something fundamentally new that has never been done in the entire history of CPU design. I doubt that.

I doubt the instruction set is the only (or even the main) advantage M1 has. Apple just has been hiring some of the best talent in the field for a long time now that have been working on their phone/tablet chips and now used their talents on the M1. There is a lot you can do to improve a CPU without changing the instruction set or manufacturing process just by doing a better job at designing the CPU itself. (look at…

Here's a really good article describing why the M1 chip is so fast. Tl;dr it's a beefy CPU with a massive reorder buffer, and a bunch of discrete subsystems (gpu, ml core, dsp, etc).

https://debugger.medium.com/why-is-apples-m1-chip-so-fast-32...

Re: Apple M1 vs. Ryzen 3900X vs. Intel I9 in Software Development

#150

Post by floatboth »

mrtksn wrote: post #142
cromka wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

M1 doesn't hit thermal dissipation capacity of Apple's fan solutions (in Mini and MB Pro). You can witness that by torturing the CPU and not even hearing the fan at all. Plenty f videos on the web show that. The fan spins, but only barely and never quite as much as with Intel I-series. And they use the same fan/heatpipe as with previous models, so nothing was improved here.

Sure, it doesn't hit the thermal envelope of Pro&Mini when working as is but isn't there a way to push it to run at higher voltage and frequencies?

It's Apple. Of course they won't give you control over voltage and frequencies.

Maybe someday someone will reverse engineer it.

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