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Insulation: First the body, then the home (2011)

lowtechmagazine.com

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Re: Insulation: First the body, then the home (2011)

#111

Post by dancek »

praptak wrote: post #12
xcambar wrote: post #3

After 5 winters of Berlin, I have decided to treat myself proper heat tech clothing. The difference in comfort is such that I barely feel any kind of fatigue or depression that the cold temperatures used to put on me. It has changed my perception of winter and I couldn't have spent my money any better. This is a costly investment though, be warned. For the curious, the keyword that started it all: "layered clothing"…

It can be costly but it doesn't have to. You pay extra for comfort, looks, low weight and obviously the branding. Warmth itself is cheap if you accept clothes that are a bit heavier and maybe not ultra-breathable. Adding a pair of cotton long johns and a cotton long sleeve turtleneck underneath whatever you are wearing can easily keep you warm, it's just not super comfortable and not super fashionable.

Cotton underwear doesn't work that well if your activity varies. Wear enough cotton to be warm while sitting for hours, and you're certain to be sweaty after five minutes of physical activity. And moist cotton underwear makes you cold.

I tend to wear wool long johns from December to March. Decades of experience with cotton, too. Wool is much, much better.

Re: Insulation: First the body, then the home (2011)

#112

Post by danans »

andys627 wrote: post #107
danans wrote: post #97

Being able to be comfortable in our homes while being minimally clothed in the winter is one of those "luxuries" of the fossil fuel age that we take for granted. The constellation of technologies needed to achieve this efficiently (with far less fossil fuels) and healthily (with healthy internal air quality) exists: heat pumps, heat-recovery-ventilators, airtight but vapor permeable house sealing materials - the stan…

New homes are much better insulated. An interesting aspect of a "Green New Deal" would be to subsidize electrifying the HVAC & insulating our older buildings. It puts people to work, saves them money for the occupants, and reduces emissions.

> An interesting aspect of a "Green New Deal" would be to subsidize electrifying the HVAC & insulating our older buildings.

This is the great part of the Green New Deal that was shouted down when much of the political establishment mocked it - it would put scores of people to work in jobs in the trades.

Re: Insulation: First the body, then the home (2011)

#113

Post by cauliflower2718 »

peteretep wrote: post #11

From the comments: > Sorry, I am not buying it. Not because you haven't done good work on the article: you have. Also not because N.American homes are overheated, and the residents under-dressed: they are. I do not buy it because the Japanese live the way you suggest in the winter, and it is miserable I have a mother in Scotland and I have a mother-in-law in Canada. Worst it ever gets near my mother seems to be -5C,…

Seconded. I've lived in high-rises in NYC and cute houses in the bay area. Despite it staying much warmer outside in the bay area, my house (and others', apparently) is so poorly insulated that I feel much colder indoors in the winter in the bay area compared to in NYC.

Re: Insulation: First the body, then the home (2011)

#114

Post by Kluny »

wolverine876 wrote: post #102

I expect people on HN to have already figured out the obvious: It takes much less energy to heat the area under your clothes, using existing heat, than to heat a room or building with artificially generated heat. Your body is 37 deg C. Wearing low-insulation clothing and letting that heat float away, and then heating the entire room or building to warm you up again, is absurd if you understand basic physics and think…

> Maybe go a step further and wear long underwear and maybe even a hat; why not?

Some reasons why not:

you may live with other people who have different basal temperatures from yours, aren't comfortable at 16 degrees or whatever you settle on, and didn't consent to participating in your wacky experiment;

other people may come over to visit your house without realizing in advance that they need to wear long underwear;

and low indoor temperatures promote mold growth.

Re: Insulation: First the body, then the home (2011)

#115

Post by greenshackle2 »

hordeallergy wrote: post #23
xcambar wrote: post #3

After 5 winters of Berlin, I have decided to treat myself proper heat tech clothing. The difference in comfort is such that I barely feel any kind of fatigue or depression that the cold temperatures used to put on me. It has changed my perception of winter and I couldn't have spent my money any better. This is a costly investment though, be warned. For the curious, the keyword that started it all: "layered clothing"…

Totally disagree with the layers philosophy. Way too much fuss. In mid-winter London I wear a t-shirt and a jacket. Perfectly warm. Just get a good jacket. Easy on, off, no ceremony.

London, sure. If you live somewhere with -25C winters, you either need layers or a set of different jackets, because a heavy down coat rated for -30C will be hot and sweaty if you so much as fast-walk at -5C. I find it more economical to own just a light synthetic jacket and wear extra layers than having an expensive down jacket just for the few weeks at -20C and below.

Layers are also a must if you do outdoor winter activities. You want to remove layers when you're active so you don't get all sweaty, and put them back on when you rest. Because sweat + cold wind is a really nasty combo.

Having said that, as far as I can tell most people in the city here don't do much winter sports and just own like 3 different coats for different weather.

Re: Insulation: First the body, then the home (2011)

#116

Post by jpindar »

turtlebits wrote: post #56
gwd wrote: post #53

> Because vasoconstriction only occurs when the core body temperature falls, it won't happen if you're dressed warmly enough. While insulating your neck and feet will greatly improve your thermal comfort, there is no need to wear gloves or caps indoors. In fact, it doesn't matter very much which parts of your body you choose to insulate - the important thing is to limit total heat loss so that the body core temperatu…

It's because you're sitting all day. Get a small foot heater.

Or if your floor is colder than the rest of the room, put something insulating under your desk to keep your feet off it. I use an old couch cushion.

Re: Insulation: First the body, then the home (2011)

#117

Post by com2kid »

wolverine876 wrote: post #102

I expect people on HN to have already figured out the obvious: It takes much less energy to heat the area under your clothes, using existing heat, than to heat a room or building with artificially generated heat. Your body is 37 deg C. Wearing low-insulation clothing and letting that heat float away, and then heating the entire room or building to warm you up again, is absurd if you understand basic physics and think…

None of this keeps my hands warm.

Or makes me feel comfortable.

After growing up in a house with no insulation and being miserable all winter long, now for an extra ~$50 a month during the winter I get to keep my house at a nice toasty 74-76 degrees F and I'm comfortable year round.

Re: Insulation: First the body, then the home (2011)

#118

Post by i_like_to_post »

duncans wrote: post #99
fnbr wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, I find that people spend the least amount of money on insulation/heat that they can. I’m from Edmonton, and the coldest I’ve ever been was the winter when I lived in London, UK, as their insulation sucks and their heating sucks. In Edmonton, that’s not possible, because you have a few days of -40C weather annually, so your pipes will freeze without proper insulation (and you’ll die). Now, it’s not comfortable l…

I guess most people's experience of living in London is because they lived in shitty rented accommodation. Most houses in London were built before the 1970s. Being rented would mean they they would be less likely to have double-glazing retro-fitted or insulation improved because the landlord wouldn't give a shit.

There are two kinds of accommodation in London. As you say, shitty rented accommodation. And then accommodation that's really property-turned-bank deposit for the rich. No one lives in those.

Re: Insulation: First the body, then the home (2011)

#119

Post by Jtsummers »

marttt wrote: post #110
gwd wrote: post #53

> Because vasoconstriction only occurs when the core body temperature falls, it won't happen if you're dressed warmly enough. While insulating your neck and feet will greatly improve your thermal comfort, there is no need to wear gloves or caps indoors. In fact, it doesn't matter very much which parts of your body you choose to insulate - the important thing is to limit total heat loss so that the body core temperatu…

Maybe this is too extreme, but starting barefoot running and/or taking cold showers will greatly increase one's cold tolerance.

I spent my time from age 32-37 exercising outdoors year round regardless of the temperature (in that area, down to 25F for January/February). My body quickly adapted to the colder weather as the seasons changed, and my only change in attire was to go from a short sleeve t-shirt to a long sleeve t-shirt. This year, I've spent almost no time outside since the summer (injury ended my running for a bit) and the winter temperatures are cutting through me (also it's colder here than my previous home, but not so cold as to fully explain the change in my comfort with it). When I wasn't exercising, I found that light (but long sleeve/long pants) clothing was sufficient nearly any time I was outdoors in the winter, even when traveling to much colder places (like the mountains for my friends' annual ski trip).

Being indoors in consistent temperatures eats away (or does for me) our ability to adapt to temperature changes. I'm planning to start doing some walks to try and get myself adapted better to these temperatures, and next year plan to spend more time outdoors through the fall (in particular) so that my body properly adapts to the next winter.

Re: Insulation: First the body, then the home (2011)

#120

Post by nojokes »

peteretep wrote: post #11

From the comments: > Sorry, I am not buying it. Not because you haven't done good work on the article: you have. Also not because N.American homes are overheated, and the residents under-dressed: they are. I do not buy it because the Japanese live the way you suggest in the winter, and it is miserable I have a mother in Scotland and I have a mother-in-law in Canada. Worst it ever gets near my mother seems to be -5C,…

It is a British. Our family friend, who has British husband complains about constant freezing during their stay there.
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