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Privacy matters even if “you have nothing to hide”

write.privacytools.io

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Re: Privacy matters even if “you have nothing to hide”

#31

Post by matz1 »

I would rather privacy to not matters, why? Because hiding information incur cost and inconveniences.

The only reason i may care about privacy is because the information can be used to hurt me.

What need to be solved is the issue of "information used to harm" instead of hiding the information(privacy)

What is the real issue of want to lock my bathroom door? Because someone could hurt me while I take a shit, but if that issue can be prevented, I wouldn't need bathroom door to be locked.

Re: Privacy matters even if “you have nothing to hide”

#32

Post by pg_bot »

A better way to get the point across with people who claim "they have nothing to hide" is to ask them "do you want to give away your ability to hide something". Everyone's future is uncertain, and even the most transparent of people among us may come into circumstances where they would want some information to remain private. If you give away your privacy you don't just give it away today, it's gone forever.

Re: Privacy matters even if “you have nothing to hide”

#33

Post by pacamara619 »

vntok wrote: post #24
bad_alloc wrote: post #4

Whenever somebody argues having nothing to hide I ask: 1) Where were you last night? 2) How much money is in your bank account? Do you have any debt? 3) What is your Debit Card PIN/account password/... 4) What is your address? Your families address? 5) Can I see your key? And so on. Everybody needs to proctect themselves and potentially others attached to them. There is a good reason for these questions being awkward…

Most people understand that there is a distinction between having nothing to hide from randos on the Internet asking about my life and having nothing to hide from the legal system of my country . Your line of questioning is not an argument for most people.

These randos on the internet are people. And who works in government and/or the justice system? You guessed it! People!

The govermnent is not some sort of abstract infallible entity. It consists of regular people. And giving those people deep access to your private and personal life is going to be abused more than it will help.

Have we already forgotten what disastrous consequences moving toward such a totalitarian government has? Have we already forgotten about the horrors of the second world war and its aftermath?

Re: Privacy matters even if “you have nothing to hide”

#34

Post by bonoboTP »

pantelisk wrote: post #18

(from FabioAEsteves). "Don't confuse privacy with secrecy. I know what you do in the bathroom, but you still close the door."

Not sure if it's the same though. It doesn't work for me.

Why do we like to defecate in privacy? What is the evolutionary reason? Animals do this too. Dogs only get to business when you give them some privacy and they like to get in the bushes if they can. I would assume it's an instinctive drive to get away from the community, to go somewhere with little social activity, so we don't make our living spaces dirty and infectious with our feces.

I don't think this is the same kind of thing as trying to keep one's political opinions or salary private.

Re: Privacy matters even if “you have nothing to hide”

#35

Post by inanutshellus »

tolbish wrote: post #15
inanutshellus wrote: post #9

I really like Social Cooling's take on privacy ( http://www.socialcooling.com/ ). SC's take (paraphrasingly, of course) is that without privacy, you're only rewarded for astroturfing your life & feigning a blandly successful life without pot holes. The Social Dilemma (Netflix docudrama)'s take on it -- that facebook-et-al don't sell "your data" they sell "a guaranteed change in your behavior" -- is also a pretty damn…

I do not think it is a given that the general public feels powerless about privacy. Why would someone take steps to empower themselves if they see no need for such power?

Well, let's build something here.

The current article argues in its opening that "nobody cares" ... The immediate retort to any "nobody cares" statement -- before one even finishes the sentence -- is "then it's probably for a good reason." It's counter-productive and frames your argument from the "weak outsider" perspective.

So if we ought to frame our argument from a position of competence rather than insecurity (my original point) and assuming people care is incorrect (your point), what ought we say to help people protect themselves?

Re: Privacy matters even if “you have nothing to hide”

#36

Post by bluetomcat »

bad_alloc wrote: post #4

Whenever somebody argues having nothing to hide I ask: 1) Where were you last night? 2) How much money is in your bank account? Do you have any debt? 3) What is your Debit Card PIN/account password/... 4) What is your address? Your families address? 5) Can I see your key? And so on. Everybody needs to proctect themselves and potentially others attached to them. There is a good reason for these questions being awkward…

The creepy stuff is when bits of such "knowledge" are taken out of context and used to compile a personal profile of you, for purposes from marketing to content recommendation to social and political engineering. Someone has those partial "facts", but are unable to extract your true motivation for your behaviours and can draw very wrong conclusions.

Re: Privacy matters even if “you have nothing to hide”

#37

Post by showmypost »

What I often miss in privacy matters conversations is a little talk about how we think about the future when data collection is happening today.

We assume that we keep progressing and not stepping back into our dark past. But is that realistic?

The person you are today might be respected and legal (in the sense of a country's law or society). But within the next 5 years, there could be a different kind of government, one that gradually reverses your rights. And suddenly the facts about you (each one of them already collected today through your browsing habits or followings/followers interests) can expose you, your family or friends, and even worse they could put you or them in danger.

Re: Privacy matters even if “you have nothing to hide”

#38

Post by pc86 »

pacamara619 wrote: post #33
vntok wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most people understand that there is a distinction between having nothing to hide from randos on the Internet asking about my life and having nothing to hide from the legal system of my country . Your line of questioning is not an argument for most people.

These randos on the internet are people. And who works in government and/or the justice system? You guessed it! People! The govermnent is not some sort of abstract infallible entity. It consists of regular people. And giving those people deep access to your private and personal life is going to be abused more than it will help. Have we already forgotten what disastrous consequences moving toward such a totalitarian g…

Whether your argument is correct or not doesn't change the fact that it's not an argument worth making to most people. Rather than try to get them to begrudgingly accept that your original argument is a worthy one, it's a better use of energy to just find the argument that works the first time.

> The govermnent is not some sort of abstract infallible entity.

Most people agree it's not infallible, but a lot of people view it as an abstract entity and not just a group of different people.

Re: Privacy matters even if “you have nothing to hide”

#39

Post by sumtechguy »

bad_alloc wrote: post #4

Whenever somebody argues having nothing to hide I ask: 1) Where were you last night? 2) How much money is in your bank account? Do you have any debt? 3) What is your Debit Card PIN/account password/... 4) What is your address? Your families address? 5) Can I see your key? And so on. Everybody needs to proctect themselves and potentially others attached to them. There is a good reason for these questions being awkward…

What is more insidious is that by itself some small portions of information are not private. But collectively they are.

Some portions of information seem innocent too like 'how much is in your account' could mean the difference between if someone tries to target me or not. Say I owe 500 bucks and have 10 in the bank and they may not bother. But say something like I have no debt and have a million in the bank and suddenly I am a very attractive target. That is for both 'good' and 'bad' actors.

Something as simple as giving your email to someone can tie you into yet another ad network. Which has already profiled you.

What is the worst of it is, I really do not care if you had the information. I do care if you use my information to mess up my life or harass me endlessly. So my default position is 'sorry I am not telling you that'.

Re: Privacy matters even if “you have nothing to hide”

#40

Post by [deleted] »

DoubleGlazing wrote: post #11
bad_alloc wrote: post #4

Whenever somebody argues having nothing to hide I ask: 1) Where were you last night? 2) How much money is in your bank account? Do you have any debt? 3) What is your Debit Card PIN/account password/... 4) What is your address? Your families address? 5) Can I see your key? And so on. Everybody needs to proctect themselves and potentially others attached to them. There is a good reason for these questions being awkward…

I like to counter the "If you have done nothing wrong then you have nothing to hide" argument with... "If I have done nothing wrong, then no one has the need to take an interest in my personal affairs."

[deleted]
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